Furthermore, Dutch people *just like the Germans* pronounce CLUB, DUB like /klap, dap/...
I'm not very fond of that.. ''way rad'' suddenly becomes ''way rat'' LOL
I'm not very fond of that.. ''way rad'' suddenly becomes ''way rat'' LOL
Do Dutch people speak the best English?
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''Eminem speaks English just as "good" as Tony Blair. Less formal but still English and still he perfectly has mastered his own dialect.''
Eminem's dialect is very regional-sounding.
I don't like the Northern Cities vowel shift accents.
I stick with Low back merged ones ;)
They tend to be considered more classy ;) and have more influence ;)
The merger is spreading, let's wait and see...I bet Ohio is the next CotCaught merged state.
Eminem's dialect is very regional-sounding.
I don't like the Northern Cities vowel shift accents.
I stick with Low back merged ones ;)
They tend to be considered more classy ;) and have more influence ;)
The merger is spreading, let's wait and see...I bet Ohio is the next CotCaught merged state.
>>Nope, Duch people have trouble with syllable-final voiced consonants, they tend to use voiceless consonants only, so they pronounce use (n). and to use (v) both with /s/ , and lose / loose (both with /s/), lice and lies (both with /s/), eyes and ice (both with /s). Final -s devoicing is regional in English (Chicago, Prince Edward Island) but not too standard/widely accepted.<<
Speaking of final devoicing in English dialects, things aren't quite that simple. For the record, I myself am speaking particularly of the dialect here in Milwaukee, but what I am saying should largely apply to Chicago as well. There are actually two phonological processes occurring in the dialects in this area, which are final devoicing and final fortition, with the former occuring more generally than the latter.
Final devoicing here is merely the phonetic voicelessness of final consonants, which is normally so here except in connected speech where the following word begins in a vowel, a semivowel, or sometimes a lenis obstruent. This is normally not noticable even by speakers of English dialects due to other phonetic cues that separate fortis/lenis obstruent pairs being preserved, particularly preceding vowel length, aspiration of plosives before stressed vowels, preglottalization of postvocalic plosives, and consonant length. At least from listening to other English-speakers, it seems that this is actually very widespread in English dialects, much moreso than many would think.
Final fortition is the actual fortition of devoiced consonants so that they themselves merge with their fortis counterparts (but still maintaining other phonetic cues separating the two outside of consonant length, which is neutralized). Note that what you refer to as "final -s devoicing". This does not affect all lenis obstruents in dialects here, and many middle aged or older people lack this and even some younger people may not be entirely consistent in this even in everyday speech. This occurs by far the most commonly with devoiced /z/, /Z/, and /dZ/, but seems to also occur at times with devoiced /v/ and /d/ (which seem to be pretty close to their counterparts /f/ and /t/ at times). The other lenis obstruents /D/, /b/, and /g/ do not undergo final fortition here even though they are still undergo final devoicing as explained above.
Speaking of final devoicing in English dialects, things aren't quite that simple. For the record, I myself am speaking particularly of the dialect here in Milwaukee, but what I am saying should largely apply to Chicago as well. There are actually two phonological processes occurring in the dialects in this area, which are final devoicing and final fortition, with the former occuring more generally than the latter.
Final devoicing here is merely the phonetic voicelessness of final consonants, which is normally so here except in connected speech where the following word begins in a vowel, a semivowel, or sometimes a lenis obstruent. This is normally not noticable even by speakers of English dialects due to other phonetic cues that separate fortis/lenis obstruent pairs being preserved, particularly preceding vowel length, aspiration of plosives before stressed vowels, preglottalization of postvocalic plosives, and consonant length. At least from listening to other English-speakers, it seems that this is actually very widespread in English dialects, much moreso than many would think.
Final fortition is the actual fortition of devoiced consonants so that they themselves merge with their fortis counterparts (but still maintaining other phonetic cues separating the two outside of consonant length, which is neutralized). Note that what you refer to as "final -s devoicing". This does not affect all lenis obstruents in dialects here, and many middle aged or older people lack this and even some younger people may not be entirely consistent in this even in everyday speech. This occurs by far the most commonly with devoiced /z/, /Z/, and /dZ/, but seems to also occur at times with devoiced /v/ and /d/ (which seem to be pretty close to their counterparts /f/ and /t/ at times). The other lenis obstruents /D/, /b/, and /g/ do not undergo final fortition here even though they are still undergo final devoicing as explained above.
Travis, you are using too many jargons in the thread above, which are not easy to understand.
>> A good accent and vocabulary will fool many people, but even the right pocket lint will not let you by people who are very sharp.
I also unintentionally fooled some "local" people because I know more about languages and have developed yet another accent that differs quite a lot from the typical (a variety of) Chinese accents, but, oh, my vocabulary sucks.
It seems like when some countries are smaller, people tend to speak (more) neighbouring languages better.
I also unintentionally fooled some "local" people because I know more about languages and have developed yet another accent that differs quite a lot from the typical (a variety of) Chinese accents, but, oh, my vocabulary sucks.
It seems like when some countries are smaller, people tend to speak (more) neighbouring languages better.
When I expressed my opinion about the quality of English spoken by the Dutch people generally I deliberately didn't mention the question of "accent", except for that amazing lady store assistant in Amsterdam. I think it's quite easy to identify a person as Dutch by their accent when they speak English - it's quite characteristic, and most probably reflects their own Language which in itself is immediately identifiable as Dutch, mostly by its very guttural nature. I can't really confirm whether or not a person may be Flemish (Belgian) when s/he speaks English. I reckon it must be a very welcome change for the Dutch to speak English which is undoubtedly much easier on the throat and vocal chords - unless, of course, you're a Scouser as they share some of the Dutch sounds! :-)
The standard of English spoken by the majority of Dutch people is extremely high, but that lady who literally showed me the way back in that store really made me think she was English by the way she spoke. Amazing. I was gobsmacked when she told me she'd never crossed the North Sea.
The standard of English spoken by the majority of Dutch people is extremely high, but that lady who literally showed me the way back in that store really made me think she was English by the way she spoke. Amazing. I was gobsmacked when she told me she'd never crossed the North Sea.
>>Eminem's dialect is very regional-sounding.
I don't like the Northern Cities vowel shift accents.
I stick with Low back merged ones ;)
They tend to be considered more classy ;) and have more influence ;)
The merger is spreading, let's wait and see...I bet Ohio is the next CotCaught merged state.<<
Ahem... I could very well say that the cot-caught merger is painfully boring and that I'd rather have a good degree of regional variation than the near monoculture that is NAE dialects in the American West east of California and the Pacific Northwest...
I don't like the Northern Cities vowel shift accents.
I stick with Low back merged ones ;)
They tend to be considered more classy ;) and have more influence ;)
The merger is spreading, let's wait and see...I bet Ohio is the next CotCaught merged state.<<
Ahem... I could very well say that the cot-caught merger is painfully boring and that I'd rather have a good degree of regional variation than the near monoculture that is NAE dialects in the American West east of California and the Pacific Northwest...
>>Travis, you are using too many jargons in the thread above, which are not easy to understand.<<
The thing, though, is that there really is no good way to explain such matters without such terminology. Were I to not simply use such terminology from the outset, I would have to be either horribly verbose and yet dumbed-down in what I wrote or have to spend a very long time explaining what each term used means...
The thing, though, is that there really is no good way to explain such matters without such terminology. Were I to not simply use such terminology from the outset, I would have to be either horribly verbose and yet dumbed-down in what I wrote or have to spend a very long time explaining what each term used means...
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