some languages more beautiful than others?

Your name in romanian would be Ioana not Joana so it is not romanian. neither is your last name "Benedek" maybe "Benedict" but I have never heard of the Romanian name "Benedek". Regardless, you are entirely wrong about the romanian language being composed of mostly slavic words before the romanian "national awakening". Most scholars will agree that before Romanian was relatinized, the percentage of latin words found in romanian was about 65% -70%. Otherwise Romanian wouldn't be considered a romance language by the Italians and French whom discovered the similarities bewteen their languages and it.

As far as I am concerned the word "popular" still means "of the people" in both Romanian and classical Latin, and trust me, unlike you, I still know my Romanian.

>>>Which scholars and linguists & Historians assert that the estimated amount of latin words in the Romanian language BEFORE the "romanian revolution" basically consisted of an relatively amount of "20-30" percent of latin words<<<

And this is total hogwash. Joana, I truelly respect your attempts at proving the Romanian language did not derive from Latin, but not when you lie in order to do it.

Most serious linguists and scholars agree that Romanian had approximetly 30% slavic loan words and between 65%-70% Latin lexicography at that time, for the reasons mentioned above.

Augustin didn't say anything about romanians who prefer to speak a slavicated Romanian (there is no such thing). He simply rounded up all the slavic phrases that are found in romanian and made a list, in order to highlight you the beauty and rarity of slavic words and phrases that can still be found in Romanian today.

My apologies, you seem to have either misread or misinterpeted my earlier post, because if you read carefully, you would see that I specifically said that Romanian is the closest language to classical Latin GRAMMATICALLY. As in, Romanian syntax is the closest to that of classical Latin out of all the Romance languages.
i.e
Classical Latin
6 cases, 4 nouns, 3 gendre
Romanian
5 cases, 4 nouns, 3 gendre
Italian
5 cases, 2 nouns, 2 gendre

Historically, Romanian was always a Romance language even when it was under slavic influence. The people have retained Roman customs and traditions which are unique to Romanians amongst their neighbours for example the holiday: Martisor.

>>>"20-30" percent of latin words, and they were mostly used as academic words.<<<

It is ludicrous to suggest that Romanian was originally slavicated to this extremety. This "argument" stands on the basis of exagurating Romanian history and is used by people who generalize for the purpose of disclaiming Romanian heritage and latin continuity in Romania. In fact, the romanian relatinization process was just as effective as the French one.

P.S Joana your sources are not related to your argument
and have fun in Mexico

Salve.

Hey Octavian, why don't you "Romanians" stop referring to yourselves as Roman. The true Romans are the Roman and Latin people of Italy. "Romanians" have a lot of nerve naming their country after the capital of the Italian Republic. Why don't you "Romanians" rename your country Dacia, which is what the name oringinally was. But then again, I understand that the Gypsies refer to themselves as "Roma". If you "Romanians" want to identify yourselves more closely with Gypsies, that's fine with me. "Romanians" have a lot more in common with Gypsies than they do with the true Roman and Latin people with Italy. And as far as Classical Latin goes, it is well known that Classical Latin began to fade after the Roman Golden Age (80B.C. to 14A.D.). After that , Vulgar Latin was the lingua franca of the Roman Empire. Dacia was conquered by the Roman soldiers in 106A.D., long after Classical Latin began to fade away from common use. Wherever the Roman soldiers conquered, wether it was in Cisalpine Gaul, Transalpine Gaul, Iberia, Britannia, or Dacia, the language of the conquering Roman soldiers, along with the Roman merchants, colonists, and other Romans was Vulgar Latin. This antimoon forum is not about which language is closest to Classical Latin, it is about which language(s) are more beautiful and pleasing to the ear compared to others. I guarantee you, that if the Italian language and the Romanian language were heard in comparison, at least 95% of the people would say that Italian is a more beautiful language. Ciao!

correction:

classical Latin had 5 nouns

ITALIAN's are the descendants of Romans? hahahahaha! thats funny
Southern Italians and Spanish are too dark, acording with the racial skin tone, they are not mediteranians. They were influenced by Arabs. The Romans came from Alpine Europe and settled in center Italy. They were not as Dark as the Greeks. Today half of Spaniards have Arabic blood. and Italy from south of Rome, is another different Italy influenced by Arabs. The original Romans were a mix of native tribes from Alpine Europe not Southern Europe. They were moderat dark, but southern Italians and Spanish are too dark to be descending from the Romans.

Mediteranian skin index is from 2 to 4 and fas yellow undertones, or you could named it - olive skin. Southern Italians and Spanish have skin index 6 - and no yellow undertones. They have the same skin as Arabs. Raffaele Benedetto conducted a DNA study in southern Italian population in the 90s and he discovered 8 locus out of 12 locucii of Arabic genes. 67 % Arabic genes in Southern Italy.

You say Romanian's are gypsies because romania has a large minority of gypsies. Italians on the other hand, have gypsies, and on top of that are half arabic. How Roman is that? Italians aren't even white, how can you have the nerve to call them "Roman" (oh thats right you must be Italian). Romanians and French remain the true descendants of the Romans not big mouthed nonwhite Italians like you.

On the subject of language.
Like all Romance languages Romanian developed from vulgar latin not classical Latin. But even at that time (106AD) there were classical latin words and grammar which remained in early vulgar Latin. Remember, Dacia was the first Roman province to be abandoned? Aurelian's retreat in 271 did more than just abandon the remaining romano-dacian population, they isolated these people which developed their own language directly out of the Latin that was left with them. Meanwhile, in the Roman Empire Vulgar Latin was also progressing its own language: late vulgar latin. Which abandoned the um/us endings prefering "o"/ "os" endings. Late vulgar latin effectivelly created the masculine "o" in Italian and spanish. In effect, the western Romance languages developed in parrallel from late vulgar latin, while Romanian developed from the vulgar latin that still had classicalities in it. Such as: "intellego" (C.L), "Inteleg"(ROM), "I understand" (ENG) western romance: intiendo, comprendo ect. So again Romanian developed from a different kind of vulgar latin, one that still maintained classical latin some classical latin words and especially grammar (which im not going to get into because you wouldn't understand C.L syntax)

>>>guarantee you, that if the Italian language and the Romanian language were heard in comparison, at least 95% of the people would say that Italian is a more beautiful language.<<<

This is obviously a blunt opinion and a subjective statement. But if you are really concerned about popular opnion on which language sounds better, Italian or Romanian. Run a google search on this topic and find out. Also keep in mind that most people never heard Romanian. And you'll see most people believe that romanian sounds more sharp.

Salve.

Ce forum est vraiment devenu nimportnawak...

Octavian and Sorin in all their forums they always present an chip on their shoulders either verbally or subtle. It looks to me that both of them are perhaps the same person or reference off eachother and present their evidence via here and it's produces an whole mascare. I wonder why, Augustin doesn't post anymore....I guess the romanian-nationalists scared him away.

Octavian? Since your so wise...coughs*

How come the ITALIANS discovered your lost language? Why didn't the Romanians knew* (being the keyword) their language contained latin vocabulary? And so, how come Romanians -needed- guidance from the french for CULTURE-inspiration.....? Were the Romanians barbaric before the 19th century? Or were they just flat out ignorant of their long ago past-time latin language & culture? As a matter fact, before the 19th century romanians didn't have an latinized-culture and the romanian people didn't EVEN know what latin was and so on.
To what I understand if the 'Romanians' forgot about their latin: culture/language/alphabet/tradition etc for almost two millenias, what makes them so REST-assured that they're in fact conversative and original? You don't see Albanians -reforming- their language...It's just too controversial in all accounts,

nonetheless...it's an known fact, despite everything I've mentioned..when people think LATIN they literally think Italian & Spanish; French too, but weren't THEY the ones whom declared the "latin" language dead? So that their language would flourish and be the latin-derived lingua franca of europe, with little success (for example; latin was the lingua franca almost 2millenias in europe. And to this day it is still being taught in parts of europe and abuntantly in the U.S.A. Also, the national athem of europe and the Roman catholic church are in Latin.)
The Spanish language is now the lingua franca (of the latin derived languages AND is the most spoken around the world; like latin was before.) Latin had variants of itself, so does Spanish.

One more question, you mentioned "popular" in Romanian means "of the people?" How come Sorin mentioned before it REFERED to as "people" Not `of the people" I think both of you need some alone time....;)

it just seems that Romanians know how to tell good fables and tall-tales.

um/us (classical latin)
om/os (archaic latin)

Archaic latin;
manios
molto/molta/moltos
popolos
deivos
oino/oina/oinos
comoinem
mereto
Primogenia
sakros/sakras/sakro
dvenoi/dvenas/dvenos ("b" of classical latin originates from "dv")

Classical latin;
manius
multus/multa/multum
populus
deus
unus/una/unum
communem
merito
primigenia
sacer/sacra/sacrum
bonus/bona/bonum

Spanish;
manios
mucho/mucha
pueblo
dios
uno/una/un
conjunto
merito
primitivo
sacro/sagrada/sagrado
bueno/buena/buen

Italian;
manio
molto/molta
popolo
dio
uno/una/un
insieme
merito
primitivo
sacro/sacra/sacrum
buono/buona/buon


http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:xCFVjoQoFdYJ:indoeuro.bizland.com/project/grammar/grammar61.html+archaic+latin&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5

Archaic-Latin/Classical Latin/Italian & Spanish;

suepnos> somnus>sonno>sueño
adcedo > accedo>avvicinarsi>aproximarse
honce > hunc>questo>este & esto
embris > imber>????>????
londhuos > lumbus>?????>????
opificina > officina >uffico>oficina
perrego > pergo>?????>????
dexiteros > dexter>?????>???
uta > ut>????>???
crino > cerno, >????>?????
sakrodhots > sacerdos>sacerdote/prete>sacerdote/cura
tignelom > tigillum>tiglio>lima
veros > verus>vero>verdadero
dvenos/bonos >bonus>buono>bueno
psabhlom > sabulum>?????>salmo
pótlom > póculum>??????>????
tlatos > latus>portato>trajo
gheimrinos > híbernus>inveno>invierno
pedjos > peior>peore>peor
Djowes > Iovis>giovedì>jueves
srígos > frígus>freddo>frio
decnos > dignus>dignitoso>digno

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:xCFVjoQoFdYJ:indoeuro.bizland.com/project/grammar/grammar61.html+archaic+latin&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5

S.P.Q.R, could you translate the other words for me, and let me know if I made an mistake. Thanks.

Romanians are a polyglot people who are mainly Dacians, with a heavy Slavic admixture, along with an additonal mix of Hungarian Magyars, Tatar Turks, and a lot of Gypsies. The Gypsies in Italy are not native Italians, they are native "Romanians". As far as whiteness goes, Southern Italians are much whiter than Romanians. Nobody knows anything about the Romanian language beacause nobody has the desire to learn it. If "Romanian" is really such a beautiful language, many people would have discovered it and learned it by now. The fact is, "Romanian" is known by few people because it is not a beautiful language. "Romanian" script looks hilarious, it resembles alphabet soup. Italian culture, language, technology, innovation, and literature is so far superior to "Romanian" achievements of the like, that it is unnecessary to even discuss it. There seems to be a serious problem in Italy today regarding immigrants from third world countries. One of those third world countries happens to be "Romania". If "Romania" is such a wonderful place, what the hell are all these "Romanians" doing in Italy? You don't see Italians emigrating en masse to third world rat holes like "Romania" do you gymnast boy? You "Romanians" have the audacity and the nerve to compare yourselves and align yourselves to the great western european nations of Spain, Italy, and France. You people have nothing in common with us. You borrow heavily from our languages because you have a huge inferiority complex. You "Romanians" are too ashamed to admit that you have more in common with Slavs, Gypsies, and Huns, than you have with the true Latin people of Spain, Italy, and France. The Roman citizens who colonized Dacia were not true Romans or Latins. Many of them came from what is now Syria. So much for whiteness huh gymnast boy! Most of the Roman settlers in ancient Dacia came from various parts of the Roman Empire. It is hard to fathom that they spoke Classical Latin either. It is historical fact that the Roman soldiers who conquered and settled new territory spoke Vulgar Latin. Classical Latin was spoken by the upper class patricians, scholars, politicians, lawyers, and empirical families. Vulgar Latin was spoken by the masses, including the Roman soldiers and colonists who emigrated to Dacia. You know nothing about Italians or Italy. There are dark mediterranian types in Northern Italy as well as numerous light haired, fair types in Southern Italy and Sicily. I know. I've seen many of them, and I've spoken to them. Why don't you keep your Gypsy/Hun mouth shut when you don't know what the hell you're talking about. And why don't you put on a leotard and do a gymnastic maneuver for all of us okay gymnast boy!

a.p.a.m. : tu es atteint de romanophobie aiguë. Tes éructations xénophobes et tes obsessions racistes n'intéressent personne. Si tu veux démontrer un fait, épargne-nous la logorrhée et concentre-toi sur des éléments tangibles et vérifiables.

In response to Greg, I am not a racist, nor am I a xenophobe. I will spare any mean spirited terms toward anybody as long as they do not direct anysuch words toward me or the Italian people. The Italian people are a proud race who have accomplished a great deal toward the benefit of mankind and the advancement of Western Civilization. It is unfortunate that an insecure twit like Sorin can have access to this forum and spew ethnic and racial hatred towards other people. His facts and statements are either erroneous or downright false. Sorin's statement regarding the French having more Roman/Latin ancestry than the Italians is pure nonsense and you know that. You also know, and to inform Sorin as well, that the French people strongly resist the notion that they are Latins. The French will proudly tell you that they are, in fact, a Celtic people, "Les Gaulois". The primary ethnic stock of todays French is that of the Celtic Gauls. Any traces of Latin ancestry in the French is miniscule and negligible. The individual who is producing such misinformation obviously doesn't know anything about the French or French history. And it brings to question whether he really knows anything about any of the other subjects that he claims to have a firm handle on.

a.p.a.m.
Don't worry, I would never be ashamed to admit that, I, as a Romanian, have more in common with the Slavs (except for the language, to a certain extent) than with the Italians and the Spaniards. However, I can only speak for myself, not for others.
In Romanian peasant speech, "Latin" ("letin") has always hadnegative connotations. It can have a whole spectrum of meanings, ranging from "pagan" (or non-Orthodox/pravoslavnic) to "cunning", "deceitful".

I don't give a rat's behind what anybody thinks about Italians. L'Italiani sono la piu gran razza del mondo.

augustin717; thanks for your contribution, your truly one of few on here.