|
|
LL and Y distinction
Why is the original thread deleted?
Well, now we can continue the discussion here. Is it true that those Filipinos who speak Spanish do distinguish LL and Y?
Bon, les amis, voilà que j'envoie dans cette filière un message que j'avais envoyé dans une autre, évidemment (pour les résultats) absolument inadéquate.
On a discuté longuement sur la vitalité, en espagnol, de la distinction "ll" /"y". Voyez la chanson suivante, dans laquelle vous pourrez la distinction que, en catalan, tout le monde fait. En même temps, et comme quelque copain a signalé que nous catalans nous avons un accent espagnol, je vous demande si, en entendant cette façon de prononcer, vous trouvez que c'est vrai. Il s'agit de l'ensemble majorquin Antònia Font: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUOmk6Wjf9Y
Yes, Catalan speakers are well known as making a strong use of the LL sound.
About Spanish speakers from Philippines I'm aware that Gloria Arroyo Macapagal does speak Spanish. Does anybody know if she pronounces LL like Y or not?
Phonology of Philippine Spanish
Speakers have a tendency to: - Stress words differently than Continental Spanish speakers would - Raise the mid vowels /o/ and /e/, - Insert a glottal stop [/] before stressed syllable-initial vowels, - Palatalize (or affricate) alveolar sounds when they appear before [j], - Seseo, as in Latin America and Andalusia (where the tendency originated from). The modern European Castilian phoneme IPA /θ/ as in ciento, caza (interdental voiceless fricative, like English th in thin) does not exist in traditional Philippine Spanish nor in any native Philippine language; it combined with /s/ as in siento, casa, - Pronounce d as [d] in all positions, - Pronounce g as [g] in all positions, - Pronounce both b and v as [b] or differentiate between the two, resulting in v sounding as in English, - Pronounce both "f" and "p" as [p] - Pronounce z as [z], - Pronounce sce and sci as [se] and [si] respectively, - Not distinguish between r and rr, - Pronounce the h, - Pronounce au as [o], - Pronounce eu as [ju], - Pronounce final m as [m]. - Ll is invariably pronounced as [ʎ]. ***
I wonder if now that they are reintroducing Spanish in Philippines, they will teach LL and Y as different sounding letters or not at schools.
You are all obsessed with this Spanish DYING sound. With or without it, Spanish will always have few phonemes. Resign yourselves to that!
As I said, the evolution of LL to Y (and eventually to SH) is something intrinsically Castilian.
But in the end, as I said as well, there are more important things in life or a language than distinguishing LL and Y. The main or most important purpose of a language is communication, and it is not impeded through not distinguishing LL and Y.
Spanish hasn't few phonemes. Andalussian Spanish has 10 vowels.
Andalusian is not Spanish, just a dialect of it!
The evolution of LL to Y is dued to carelessly pronunciation. Cultured people distinguish LL from Y.
Aren't there good psychiatrists to recover the people of this thread in Spain?
Podríamos contratar a Freud, cuyo espíritu aun vive en el alma de Franco.
<< The evolution of LL to Y is dued to carelessly pronunciation. Cultured people distinguish LL from Y. >>
Then you're saying that the Castilians were being careless and uncultured when they let MULLER become MUJER, OLLO become OJO, FILLO become HIJO, etc. You know what, believe what you want. If you want to believe that LL-Y distinction is a sign of culture, be my Guest. I won't keep you from living in such an imaginary, foolish way of thinking. There are so many other aspects of Spanish which are definitely more worth than this to discuss. @Moderator: I don't mind at all if this thread be locked. |