The language of Belgium

German is far from being grammatically simplistic. It is also about as phonetics as you can get. Sounds like someone is very unfamiliar with the German language.

To JLK: I have heard that Norwegian has two versions as well... Swedish has 9 million speakers, and might be the handiest, but I have also read that Danish is the most difficult. Having heard limited amounts of each language, I like the sound of Danish the least. Do you know if they roll the r's in any of those languages? I think at least some speakers of Swedish do. I'd be open to learning any of them, but maybe Norwegian would be best to start with. Someday, just to torture myself, I might like to take Icelandic. :)

I think JLK and Colette have found common ground and that's cool.

I agree that Norwegian is the language to learn if you have the time to learn a Scandinavian language. Alsatian is kind of sing-song too, if you like Germanic languages...

Leonard Bernstein could identify music and language of composer by melodic line. In other words, perhaps, maybe prosody (if that is the word) drives melodic line. A few years ago (2002) Berstein's lectures were on a cable channel. It was great because he discussed so many interesting topics and I had no idea until an older man told me about these lectures ( filmed in the 1950s and maybe 1960s) and explained how amazing they were.

I don't know why so many Germans are composers. Of course, Italians composed a lot of music too. It may be an acceptable outlet for creativity in a culture that was probably emotional cool in some aspects. It seems that "Germanics" do well with creativity within structure, but that is just my biased opinion.

Sweden is part of my heritage and I prefer the sound of Swedish to Norwegian, so it is the one I will learn. The 9 million speakers is only a bonus. Danish is my least favorite of the three too. It is to guttural and slurred in my opinion. Swedes joke about Danish, saying, "they sound like they've got a hot potato in their mouth". I'm not sure about the rolled r's. I don't recall hearing them when my grandmother spoke to me in it, but I could be wrong.

I can recommend some excellent courses for learning Swedish and Norwegian, if you like...

Hi JLK,

I have heard that too about the hot potato! Yes, I would love to have any recommendations for learning these languages. I may give it a try in February. How do you say "thank you" in Swedish? :)

Colette

"I'm not sure about the rolled r's."

— Traditional Swedish proncunciation prescribe rolled R's but some provinces in the South never used it. I have the sensation those trills are slowly losing ground, with a growing tendency to use French or German R's instead.
However there's a weird phenomenon: many people who do not roll their R's in normal speech will do when they want to put emphasis on some word featuring a R followed by a vowel in the stressed radical syllabe.

Hi OïL,

Thanks for clarifying that. I heard a song in Swedish the other day with tons of r-rolling... I have tried to do that since I was a little girl and have never had any success with it. I can do the French and German r's very well, thankfully and appropriately enough for me. Do you know about Norwegian or Danish?

Thank you,
Colette

<<Italian is generally considered one of the nicest languages in the world, so shut up. You're a bunch of germanic barbarians. >>

This is an old-fashioned attitude (that of my Grandmother's era). Preferential treatment of latin languages is dead and gone. Get over it and come into the 21st century already.

For Norwegian, 'Teach Yourself Norwegian' is a fantastic introduction and is probably the best Teach Yourself course I have encountered.

For Swedish, the best one is Assimil's Le Suedois Sans Peine. There are two volumes, but you need to know French as it is the teaching language.<Assimil courses are the best self-teaching courses I've encountered. The problem is, not too many Assimil courses use English as the teaching language. If you're learning French, try they're two courses.
http://www.assimil.com/

There is also the SWEDISH BASIC course, by the U.S Foreign Service Institute. It's in the public domain, so it's free. You'll see the occasional outdated word, but overall, it's an excellent course. http://fsi-language-courses.com/Swedish.aspx


Thank you in Swedish is 'Tack'.

FSI is very good in some other languages as well. Prof. A. or someone doesn't recommend the Korean though (of course he has a book on Korean...) If you are the JLK I think you are, you'll know who Prof. A. is.

It really doesn't matter in some languages if the material is a little old. If you say something from the sixties and you are twenty-five, you'll just get corrected.

I inherited some old language books and courses (some from the 1950s or 1960s), but I found that newer courses were using basically the same material, the same phrases. It probably depends on the language.

I never use "comrade" in any language except for comic effect.

FSI is thorough and for people who ARE NOT lazy, it's a heckuva course.

Colette,

Non-rolled Swedish R's are indeed similar to German R's, BUT they have to contain some kind of aborted trill that can materialize depending of loudness! I think this is something quite unique.

"Ja' är trött" (= "I'm tired") with a very discreet "R" means that the speaker is really falling asleep.
"Jag är TRRRRÖTT" means that the guy is getting nervous and is fed up with your presence!

I remember it's pretty much the same in Norwegian (Norwegian is basically a Danish variant with Swedish phonetics after all).

For Danish, the throatiest Parisian 'R's are mandatory.

------
<<Italian is generally considered one of the nicest languages in the world, so shut up. You're a bunch of germanic barbarians. >>

Idiot.
Swedish is probably more musical and pleasant than any other language.
BTW it sounds sometimes strangely similar to Italian with the over-abundance of final 'A's and the strongly stressed double consonants.

For example, the phrase "I write with a pen":
sw. 'Jag skriver med en penna'
sounds strikingly similar to
it.'Io scrivo con una penna'

Except that the Swedish version sounds a lot more elegant IMveryHO.

Hi O.,

Thank you for your insights and suggestions. I have created a forum for people who would like to speak freely about languages.

http://langwelt.phpbbsite.com/

After we get quite a few people I will need someone to help with being a (reasonable) moderator. Let me know if you are interested, or JLK, or anyone cool, intelligent, etc.

Yuletide greetings,
Colette

''Swedish is probably more musical and pleasant than any other language.''

I don't know, it sounds more rural (hillbilly) than HochGerman, Belgian French or Norwegian, at least to my ears.

<< To me, they are both fast and loud, with Italian being louder and Spanish being faster, but both fast and loud. >>

Loud? Maybe, but depends on the person and the situation. It seems that all native speakers seem to talk fast in the view of non-speakers or learners of a language. I have heard from people and said myself (about various languages) ''Geez, they speak so fast'', etc... but many non-native English speakers have told me the same thing about English as well. That's cool if you don't really like the Latin languages. For me, the German I have heard (not just from WW2 movies) isn't appealing to me, but that's me. English is about as Germanic as I want to get. :)

<<<< To me, they are both fast and loud, with Italian being louder and Spanish being faster, but both fast and loud. >>

Loud? Maybe, but depends on the person and the situation. It seems that all native speakers seem to talk fast in the view of non-speakers or learners of a language. I have heard from people and said myself (about various languages) ''Geez, they speak so fast'', etc... but many non-native English speakers have told me the same thing about English as well. That's cool if you don't really like the Latin languages. For me, the German I have heard (not just from WW2 movies) isn't appealing to me, but that's me. English is about as Germanic as I want to get. :)>>


Hi Mac,

It's not so much "the Latin languages" that I don't like -- after all, I did study Latin itself for 5 years during school, and went on to study French in college (before learning German). I also find Portuguese to be somewhat pleasant-sounding from what little I have heard of it. It is only Spanish (which I really don't like the sound of) and Italian (which I am not crazy about but can tolerate the sound of). I really adore French and I also enjoyed studying Latin very much. I am a little curious about Portuguese, but can't see myself using it often. I may look into it.

I would agree that many people think languages are "fast" if they don't know them. On the other hand, some native speakers of the language (e.g. Spanish) will tell you that people from (area X) speak fast. I often hear "Cuba" mentioned. I'm not sure I agree, but...

What the person is really saying is this: You talk too fast for my comprehension.

Are Italians loud? Actually, they seem pretty loud to me and I can understand Italian and speak it a little. On the other hand, I think Americans are very loud too. Maybe they are just fun and animated. It probably depends on the person. I like Italians, though. What a great language!