different ways to pronounce the word "comfortable"

Travis   Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:46 am GMT
The only cases that I can think of in NAE which can really be said to be truly very nasal are cases where /n/ is no longer realized as [n], but rather just nasalizes a preceding vowel, as said vowel is usually nasalized very strongly to compensate for the lack of actual realization of [n]. Examples of such are in things like post-vocalic /nt/ clusters, where the /n/ only strongly nasalizes the vowel in question, and the /t/ is realized as [?] (unless if it is word-final, and another word following it starts with a vowel, where then it is realized as [4]).
Kirk   Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:18 am GMT
I remember learning in one of my linguistics classes that apparently a very common claim made by people around the world (from any language) is that speakers of other dialects of their language (or other languages) "speak thru their noses" or "speak nasally." Of course everyone uses nasals at times but if we listened to everyone that claimed that others had exaggerated nasality that'd mean everyone in the world :) It's an interesting universal in popularly describing other languages or language varieties but without scientific evidence on the matter such claims usually are groundless. Another popular claim, possibly even more so, is that other speakers "talk fast," when studies show no language displays noticeably faster or slower speaking speeds than any other does on average. It's an audial illusion but another one popularly believed. There are others like this, but basically popular claims or opinions about language are usually not a good source if you're looking for linguistic reality.
Felix the Cassowary   Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:45 pm GMT
Why would I want to be a member of a club that didn't want me as a member of it? :)

Maybe there's something in the air—apparently the Australian Aboriginal languages have a lot of nasal-stop clusters that don't assimilate, things like /ŋt/ or /np/, and so forth. Actually, they tend to go right into the nasals (I'm led to believe), with phonemic distinctions between velar, palatal, retroflex, alveolar, dental and labial nasal stops. Count them! Six!
Uriel   Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:49 pm GMT
Holy crap! I would not be qualified for THAT club!
JHJ   Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:11 pm GMT
<<I remember learning in one of my linguistics classes that apparently a very common claim made by people around the world (from any language) is that speakers of other dialects of their language (or other languages) "speak thru their noses" or "speak nasally." Of course everyone uses nasals at times but if we listened to everyone that claimed that others had exaggerated nasality that'd mean everyone in the world :) It's an interesting universal in popularly describing other languages or language varieties but without scientific evidence on the matter such claims usually are groundless. Another popular claim, possibly even more so, is that other speakers "talk fast," when studies show no language displays noticeably faster or slower speaking speeds than any other does on average. It's an audial illusion but another one popularly believed. There are others like this, but basically popular claims or opinions about language are usually not a good source if you're looking for linguistic reality. >>

It often seems to me that people tend to describe accents they don't like as "nasal". Another strange word is "twang": what qualifies an accent as a "twang"?

On the other topic of this thread, I tend to have a [p] intruding in /mf/ clusters. If anything I think the /f/ might become bilabial.
Kirk   Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:35 pm GMT
<<It often seems to me that people tend to describe accents they don't like as "nasal". Another strange word is "twang": what qualifies an accent as a "twang"?>>

That's another very vague term as well :)

<<On the other topic of this thread, I tend to have a [p] intruding in /mf/ clusters. If anything I think the /f/ might become bilabial.>>

Interesting!
Mxsmanic   Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:56 am GMT
English people might describe unpleasant accents as nasal, but in languages where the nasality of vowels is phonemic, nobody describes unpleasantness in this way, because they are much more attuned to nasality, and they treat it as a carrier of meaning rather than an aesthetic stereotype.

Many French people speak very nasally when they speak English, as they have learned to never leave nasality to chance (in French, it's phonemic), and their teachers may have been English speakers with unusually nasal voices, such as teachers with a "Midwestern twang."
Travis   Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:05 pm GMT
>>English people might describe unpleasant accents as nasal, but in languages where the nasality of vowels is phonemic, nobody describes unpleasantness in this way, because they are much more attuned to nasality, and they treat it as a carrier of meaning rather than an aesthetic stereotype.<<

The thing though is that in North American English dialects today, *realized* vowel nasality seems to carry meaning as much as [n] itself does. Probably the best example of this is the example of /nt/ after a vowel and either before a consonant or the end of a word in many NAE dialects, where [n] is never actually pronounced, and the vowel is simply nasalized instead. Another more limited example (limited as in that it is specific to my dialect, and then only some people, myself included, seem to have it) is with /"Eni/ in words like "any" and "many", where [n] is not realized, but instead a nasalized diphthong [EI~] is realized instead; despite such, it appears to still be perceived phonemically by listeners that there is an /n/ present even though there is no realized [n] present, which further indicates that vowel nasalization is capable of communicating /n/-ness alone in at least some NAE dialects.
Guy   Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:56 am GMT
Travis,

can you make a recording of you saying "any" and "many"? I tried pronouncing it like [EI~] but it doesnt sound like "any" to me at all.
Travis   Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:48 am GMT
Well, I haven't gotten my hands on a microphone for this machine I am using right now yet, but I have wanted to get one in the relative near future, so I might get one so I can actually record such soon.

And yes, at least to some, it seems like such pronunciations of "any" and "many" don't sound like said words to them; in particular, I have a particular coworker, who is from Chicago (me being from the Milwaukee area), who doesn't understand my usual pronunciations of said words, usually requiring me to repeat myself rather, well, carefully.
Geoff_One   Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:15 pm GMT
From Kirk's message.

<< I remember learning in one of my linguistics classes that apparently a very common claim made by people around the world (from any language) is that speakers of other dialects of their language (or other languages) "speak thru their noses" or "speak nasally." >>

From one important perspective, it is important to have a reasonable level of nasality in one's voice. A nasal voice does not tire as easily. The more nasal a voice is the lower becomes the likelihood that you will develop nodes, polyps or contact ulcers on your vocal cords/folds. To confirm this, you would need to see a speech pathologist and a qualified doctor. I am neither of these.

<< Of course everyone uses nasals at times but if we listened to everyone that claimed that others had exaggerated nasality that'd mean everyone in the world :) >>

What about Henry Kissinger's voice? Is he the exception?
Dave B   Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:21 am GMT
...how do each of you say the word "ask"?
Dave B.   Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:14 am GMT
Some say ask as , a s k , others say ax as in a fire axe. I think it strange for some to say the word comfortable as comf ter ble when it is spelled com fort able. I learned to read by breaking up the word into parts and pronounce it phonetically. Can any of you come up with other words that are pronounced differently than spelled? I am curious.
Guest   Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:22 am GMT
lmao, dude we're talking about ENGLISH most of the times what's written has nothing to do with what's pronounced. helloo