por que?

Guest   Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:54 pm GMT
It isn't weird. My SIL does this. Some people make one sound for "v" and another sound for "b", so both letters are still necessary. This issue comes up here every few months or so.

I'm aware that some people pronounce "v" as a kind of "b" sound and I know some people teach that they MUST be pronounced alike, but that is not what is actually happening in all cases. I remember this old debate very well and someone mentioned how some people in Spain were trying to do this. My SIL isn't from Spain, but she is a native speaker of Spanish, so at least some people in two countries are making a distinction between "v" and "b". I guess I need to make a mental note to listen carefully and note whose natives are making a distinction.
Gues   Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:59 pm GMT
I can asure you that 99% of native speakers in America and Spain don't make that distinction
Guest   Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:03 am GMT
I'd like to see some data on that please, "Gues"
Guest   Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:12 am GMT
I'm a native speaker as well and I sopport the previous claim, neither in America nor Europe people make differece between V and B, but there are some rules to distinguish them, for example:

It is always going to be a B after an M, like in Combate
It is always going to be a V after an N like in Convertir
Guest   Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:30 am GMT
I'm afraid I disagree. My SIL does it and I've heard it from other people.
I believe you when you say that you do not make the distinction. I also believe that many people do not make a difference, but some do. You need that memory device for spelling, don't you? Interesting point.
Guest   Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:39 am GMT
A book for beginning Spanish students (published in 2007) "The Everything Learning Spanish Book with CD" notes that "b" is pronounced like the "b" in "bella" and "v" is between "b" and "v".

Recently I was asked to teach Spanish to adults. The very strict teacher who teaches on another day of the week was using this book. He teaches European Spanish, btw.
iluminado   Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:44 am GMT
In Bolivia it's not strange to find Spanish speakers that distinguish b and v but that is dued to the influence of the native languages which are still alive and spoken by people who also speak Spanish but not as their mother tongue. Also in music, specially European Spanish music, Spanish singers tend to make that distinction , sometimes to the point of exaggerating and pronouncing v the same as f (Marta Sanchez is a good example), but it's artificial, it's like an artistc license and not a feature of everyday spoken Spanish. Last but not least, you may find, although they are rare, extremely conservative and pedantic people (some Spanish teachers included) who pronounce v different than b, they resist to accept the fact that v sounds like b in Spanish since the XVI century, and even RAE does not recommend to make such distinction and says instead that v must be pronounced like b. So, to summarize, v sounds like b, but who knows, the old-fashioned pronunciation of v isn't technically dead. Maybe it will revive someday and the masses will begin to distinguish b and v again.
Guest   Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:47 am GMT
http://www.champs-elysees.com/products/spanish/spanish_pronunciation/B-V_phonetics.htm

There is a lot of information about this here, and I mean a lot. It supports both views, in a way.

Generally speaking, these letters are pronounced the same way, but please check out the comments about the wave of the future. It seems to indicate that "b" and "v" WILL be pronounced as different sounds in the future because of the bilingual situation with English.
Guest   Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:56 am GMT
Guest   Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:56 am GMT
What the HELL is a SIL?

I HATE people who use obscure abbreviations without clarifying.
Guest   Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:58 am GMT
I guess you HATE me, then. It seems to be common on the internet. It means sister-in-law. I suppose it could be son-in-law to some people.
Guest   Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:05 am GMT
Маybe in dingy teen chat rooms, but intelligent people with lofty ideas don't use silly abbreviations.
Guest   Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:45 am GMT
Dingy teen chat rooms? Let's see, are you scolding me? I fail to see your point about lofty ideas and abbreviations. Many "intelligent" people use abbreviations. Wait, this must be a question of "style" Now who would make such remarks?

If you are finished with your tantrum, would you like to add anything about the topic?
Guest   Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:10 am GMT
Yes, I would like to add that that abbreviation is not very common and often you will get people asking for clarification. Therefore you should write it out fully, or are you too slothful? Maybe you ought to buy one of those machines which types out what you dictate, or if arthritis is your problem, you could go visit a doctor.

If you are finished with your feeble defence, would you like to add anything to the topic?
Guest   Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:29 am GMT
I find writing b, v, k or w is a way of showing respect to the provenance of a word. Whisky, Kiosk and Kiew are words coming from far away and are borrowings, not "native" Spanish words.