kin(d) of funny - D after N

Johnny   Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:06 pm GMT
I usually don't pronounce t's after n's, in words like "international" (innernational) or "twenty" (twenny).
I noticed I tend to skip the d in "kind of" too. So I was wondering if it is possible (and actually done by native speakers) to skip d's after n's the same way I skip t's, in the same situations.
Find out -> "Fine doubt" or "Fine out"?

Thanks.
Russconha   Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:58 am GMT
As an Englishman who prides himself in speak the Queen's English, but actually speaks Estuary English with a Sussex drawl, I wouldn't drop the d, especially if the next word starts with a vowel.
Guest   Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:32 pm GMT
I wouldn't drop the D. Find out would always sound like "fine doubt" and not "fine out" (as you put it). Also, "kind of" comes out as "kinda" for me. I'm American, by the way.
Travis   Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:17 pm GMT
It is common in at least North American English to reduce /nd/ to [n] or [ɾ̃] between vowel when the following vowel is unstressed or when it falls at the end of a word. For instance, "kind of" is extremely commonly pronounced as [ˈkʰãːɪ̯̃nəː(v)] or [ˈkʰãːɪ̯̃ɾ̃əː(v)] in NAE dialects; my own dialect in addition having [ˈkʰãːẽ̯ɾ̃əː(v)] often goes even further and has [ˈkʰãːẽ̯əː(v)] in everyday speech. However, this is far less frequent than the similar reduction of /nt/, and in many dialects only occurs in very common or unstressed words, whereas in most dialects such reduction of /nt/ affects all words except when they are very strongly stressed.
Johnny   Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:15 pm GMT
<<However, this is far less frequent than the similar reduction of /nt/, and in many dialects only occurs in very common or unstressed words, whereas in most dialects such reduction of /nt/ affects all words except when they are very strongly stressed.>>

Yes, it seems to me that it's not as frequent as the reduction of /nt/, and not always done, unlike /nt/ reduction, which is always done by some native speakers (every time nt is followed by an unstressed syllable).
So what do you suggest? I should say "kind of" without the d, but "find out" with the d? That's what I would tend to do, but then I can't think of any other words where I would reduce /nd/ to /n/ (apart from candidate, maybe).
Travis   Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:26 pm GMT
>>So what do you suggest? I should say "kind of" without the d, but "find out" with the d? That's what I would tend to do, but then I can't think of any other words where I would reduce /nd/ to /n/ (apart from candidate, maybe).<<

For a learner of NAE (or English in general, even though I am not quite so sure about how this all words in English English), I would suggest that they pronounce "kind of" with just [n] or [ɾ̃] but "find out" with [nd], seems to be the general pattern in semiformal General American. Not all dialects follow this patter, though; in my dialect, it is extremely common to have just [ɾ̃] in both "kind of" and "find out", as [ˈkʰãːẽ̯ɾ̃əː(v̥)] and [ˈfãːẽ̯ˈɾ̃ɐo̯ʔ(t)]/[ˈfãːẽ̯ˈɾ̃ɒ̝ɔ̯ʔ(t)]/[ˈfãːẽ̯ˈɾ̃ɑ̝ʔ(t)] respectively, and in more progressive forms of my dialect such as my own, one can often have outright elision of /nd/ in both "kind of" and "find out", as [ˈkʰãːẽ̯əː(v̥)] and [ˈfãːẽ̯ˈɐo̯ʔ(t)]/[ˈfãːẽ̯ˈɒ̝ɔ̯ʔ(t)]/[ˈfãːẽ̯ˈɑ̝ʔ(t)].
Travis   Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:28 pm GMT
[ˈfãːẽ̯ˈɾ̃ɒ̝ɔ̯ʔ(t)] and [ˈfãːẽ̯ˈɒ̝ɔ̯ʔ(t)] above should be [ˈfãːẽ̯ˈɾ̃ɑ̝ɔ̯ʔ(t)] and [ˈfãːẽ̯ˈɑ̝ɔ̯ʔ(t)] respectively above.
Uriel   Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:21 am GMT
<<I usually don't pronounce t's after n's, in words like "international" (innernational) or "twenty" (twenny).
I noticed I tend to skip the d in "kind of" too. So I was wondering if it is possible (and actually done by native speakers) to skip d's after n's the same way I skip t's, in the same situations.
Find out -> "Fine doubt" or "Fine out"? >>

I frequently skip the D in "kind of", although sometimes I retain it and say "kinda", too. Once in a while I even say it correctly. And sometimes I soften the D in "find out" to the point where you can barely hear it. But I wouldn't recommend it to a non-native speaker, honestly. If it's something you pick up because you hear it said that way over and over, fine, but don't try to cultivate "shortcuts" -- if you have an accent, clear pronunciation is your best bet for ease of communication.