Demystifying the Sounds of English, German, and Spanish

Guest   Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:58 am GMT
I didn't check the link for the "ll" sound. I posted the bit about "shorar".
A few months ago, there was a big argument about this here. Is this the same thing? I believe the argument was that "ll" should be pronounced in the same way some people in Spain pronounce it.

BTW, how much sway does the RAE have about these matters?
Guest   Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:50 am GMT
Okay, I listened to some examples with "ll" and neither sounded like "y".
I heard "rodilla" which I say with a "y", but the speaker (rioplatenese) says
roDIzha, the other "ll" in "llama" sounds like "jama"
Gabriel   Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:12 am GMT
Let's not have the same argument again, please. There's no single "proper" way of pronouncing LL. The traditional pronunciation is /L/, the palatal lateral approximant. If you're the sort that cares about such things, then by all means use that pronunciation. You'll be perfectly understood by the majority of us who use [j], [S] or [Z].

<<BTW, how much sway does the RAE have about these matters?>>

None whatsoever.
Guest   Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:12 pm GMT
Why do you always bring the Rio Platence accent here, just to make it confusing? I'll put it simple for you.

* The Spanish Y is not the same as the English Y
* The LL sounds just like the Y (the Spanish one of course)
* Since both are pronounced the same, Argentines pronounce both as SH
* In the old days LL was prounced different from Y, but not anymore
* Finally, Spanish has only one sound Y, compared to English which has 3 Y, G and J.
Guest   Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:39 pm GMT
Actually, I DON'T always bring the rioplatense here. It was on the sample.
I use the "y" sound, but if you tell students that and leave out "sh"-that will be the accent they hear somehow, I think. LOL!
Guest   Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:58 pm GMT
In the old days LL was prounced different from Y, but not anymore

LL is still pronounced different than Y in Northern Spain.
Guest   Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:08 pm GMT
O-kay,

Let's say that you teach adults-from their early twenties to their sixties. They are a diverse bunch with different goals and they have a variety of accents in English. Some are Americans, but not all of them. What would you teach them? I teach them "Y' for "ll" and tell them that it's different in Argentina and that often things are different in different parts of the Spanish-speaking world.
Guest   Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:18 pm GMT
English speakers pronounce LL like the people in Spain who pronounce LL different from Y so it's more natural for them to pronounce Spanish LL that way.
Guest   Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:49 pm GMT
And what way do they pronounce "Y" in your opinion? In Spain?
Guest   Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:55 pm GMT
Only a very few percentage of people in Spain would distinguish between LL and Y, mostly elderly people, the truth is that almost everyone in Spain and Latin America pronounce Y and LL the same way.
Guest   Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:04 pm GMT
Most of the Spanish citizens are elderly people.
Guest   Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:20 pm GMT
Spain doesn't have a large population. Ever been there? I'm not elderly, but what does it matter anyway unless you are saying that their way of speaking is on the way out.
Guest   Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:48 pm GMT
I found this page using google. Wow, thanks so much! It was so helpful in writing a linguistics paper/
Guest   Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:51 am GMT
Glad to hear that! I really enjoy it.
Ria   Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:12 am GMT
I HATE SPANISH