Guest   Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:40 pm GMT
why do english natives say stop as sdop and star as sdar?
Guest   Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:17 am GMT
I don't say "sdop" or "sdar".
Guest   Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:33 am GMT
I can't even say "sdop". If I try, I end up saying "zdop".
Johnny   Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:20 am GMT
I have to say you there's not a big difference if you try to pronounce them that way, but it depends how fast and clearly you try to pronounce them. In most cases, you could tell the difference, and it's STOP, not SDOP.
I think the reason why SDOP is more similar to STOP than, say, DOP is similar to TOP, is that a T after an S is not aspirated. So in TOP you can notice a burst of air, but in STOP there is not such a burst.
Johnny   Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:22 am GMT
<<I have to say you there's...>>

I wonder how I managed to write that, LOL. Take that "you" away. :-)
Estel   Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:04 am GMT
No, it's not sdop or sdar, but simply stop and star with inaspirated t's. They're different.
Earle   Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:19 pm GMT
And there's the "listening" filter I've mentioned before. What you cannot hear, you cannot duplicate.
Gabriel   Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:34 pm GMT
After /s/ there's neutralization of some phonemes, like /t/ vs /d/ or /p/ vs /b/. These pairs do not contrast in this position, so there can be no possible distinction in English between STOP and *SDOP.
Lazar   Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:53 pm GMT
In English, the pairs /p, b/, /t, d/, /k, g/ are usually distinguished by voicing, but there's an equally salient distinction of aspiration. After tautosyllabic /s/, the voiceless plosives are unaspirated, and the voiced plosives can't occur at all, so there can be some confusion as to what phoneme is used. For my part, though, I've always perceived the consonant in "stop" and "star" as /t/ rather than /d/.