If you want to speak pure American, you must study British.

Michal Ryszard Wojcik   Friday, December 21, 2001, 23:35 GMT
Assumption 1: You are exposed to both spoken American and British.
Assumption 2: You want to speak pure American.
Assumption 3: You do not speak pure American.

Conclusion: You have to study British pronunciation.

Proof

Notice that your input influences your output.
In other words, what you hear is the basis for what you speak.
This is because of the imitation-skill that you employ when learning pronunciation.

By Assumption 1, you are influenced in the direction of British English.
By Assumption 2, this fact is undesirable for you.
Hence, you need to guard against this.

Metaphorically, your British English input is your enemy,
and you must know how to defend against this enemy.

One way would be to remove the enemy from your environment.
But this is impossible by Assumption 1.
So you need to be prepared for the constant existence of the enemy.
You must be "immune".

You must be so prepared, so vaccinated,
that the existence of the enemy is harmless.

First of all, you must be able to recognize the enemy.
If you do not see the difference between American input and British input,
both kinds will influence your output, via the imitation-skill.

By Assumption 3, your knowledge of American pronunciation is incomplete.
Hence, if you meet an unknown piece of input,
it could be a missing piece of knowledge about American pronunciation.
So you must not ignore it. You must study it.
It can be American or it can be British.
But you must absorb it only if it is American.

So if you want to expand your knowledge, (which you do by Assumptions 2 and 3)
you must have the technical knowledge to tell between American and British.

So you must have technical knowledge about British pronunciation.
Thus you must study British pronunciation, and the proof is complete.
Tom   Sunday, December 23, 2001, 13:15 GMT
<<<<
First of all, you must be able to recognize the enemy.
If you do not see the difference between American input and British input,
both kinds will influence your output, via the imitation-skill.
>>>>

Maybe I don't have to see the difference. If I know a person is British, I can ignore what they say, or at least approach it carefully.

You may argue that I sometimes don't know if the speaker is British or American. For example, in a movie or on an international TV network like CNN International. But then perhaps I don't have to know ALL the differences between American and British. I just need to recognize ONE difference.

I could also approach a speaker's pronunciation with care until I'm sure he's American.

<<<<
By Assumption 3, your knowledge of American pronunciation is incomplete.
Hence, if you meet an unknown piece of input, it could be a missing piece of knowledge about American pronunciation. So you must not ignore it. You must study it. It can be American or it can be British. But you must absorb it only if it is American.
>>>>

This doesn't mean that I have to learn both British and American pronunciations of words, does it? It only means I should check the pronunciation if I hear a word spoken by a British person (because it may be different from the American pronunciation).

<<<<
you must have the technical knowledge to tell between American and British.
>>>>

Maybe not.

Perhaps a better argument in favor of learning British would be the need to understand British? "I need to study the British pronunciation of words, because I need to understand British English"?
Michal Ryszard Wojcik   Sunday, December 23, 2001, 14:41 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<<<<
First of all, you must be able to recognize the enemy.
If you do not see the difference between American input and British input,
both kinds will influence your output, via the imitation-skill.
>>>>

Maybe I don't have to see the difference. If I know a person is British, I
can ignore what they say, or at least approach it carefully.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The phrases "to see the difference" and "to ignore what they say" are only phrases. We must make our discussion more precise. These two phrases suggest that the learner is conscious of the input, is aware of whether British or American is being spoken to him, and that he can decide to shut off the input and prevent it from entering his head.

I don't know if it is possible to direct the workings of one's mind in this way. The learner recognizes that her speaker is British and so she uses her free will to tell her mind not to absorb this speaker's input. And the mind obeys and this speaker's input is shut off. I doubt this scenario.

I rather believe that the mind itself must possess the power to "see the difference" and to "ignore the input of one kind" and to "be influenced by the input of the other kind". I believe that technical phonetics knowledge needs to be encoded in the brain.

But anyway, I'm afraid that this is all incomplete speculation.
Michal Ryszard Wojcik   Sunday, December 23, 2001, 14:42 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
<<<<
By Assumption 3, your knowledge of American pronunciation is incomplete.
Hence, if you meet an unknown piece of input, it could be a missing piece of
knowledge about American pronunciation. So you must not ignore it. You must
study it. It can be American or it can be British. But you must absorb it
only if it is American.
>>>>

This doesn't mean that I have to learn both British and American
pronunciations of words, does it? It only means I should check the
pronunciation if I hear a word spoken by a British person (because it may be
different from the American pronunciation).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The phrase "an unknown piece of input" suggests that the learner has the time to analyze one particular utterance of a native speaker. Then the learner can find out if the speaker is British or American, and totally ignore it if it's British, or focus on it when it's American. But "unknown pieces of input" can be encountered in a longer portion of input, when it is impossible to contemplate single pieces.
Michal Ryszard Wojcik   Sunday, December 23, 2001, 14:43 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<
Perhaps a better argument in favor of learning British would be the need to
understand British? "I need to study the British pronunciation of words,
because I need to understand British English"?
>>>>>>>>>>

Yes. Even though you want to speak pure American, you still want to understand British. So you should learn British too.
Krzysztof Cichy   Sunday, December 23, 2001, 21:22 GMT
To MRW:

Your proof is by all means complete but if a learner wants to learn only American pronunciation they can also try to overcome the first assumption - they can remove their British input e.g. by watching only American TV stations like CNN or NBC or American movies. They can even go to USA. This should ensure only American input.

In most cases, however, a learner who is to choose which pronunciation pattern to follow has already been exposed to both American and British input. If so, the only way to learn pure American pronunciation is to recognize the British versions and learn how to avoid them and in this case I agree with your conclusion.
Michal Ryszard Wojcik   Monday, December 24, 2001, 12:03 GMT
I watch CNN regularly and I hear a wide variety of accents. CNN is not a source of American English only, as Krzysztof Cichy suggests.

As for American movies, they are also not a uniform source of American English. Even when all the actors are Americans, there are still very big differences in their accents. When one is learning "American English", it is not enough to treat all American input as valid. There are so many different American accents...

I think that one needs to have technical phonetics knowledge if one wants to develop a particularly desired accent and not something else.
Tom   Monday, December 24, 2001, 14:18 GMT
Just to clarify one thing:

CNN is a TV network broadcast in the USA. The accent is American.
CNN International is broadcast globally. You can hear British, American, and other accents.

As for movies, I think there are very few American movies where all characters speak standard American English.
Krzysztof Cichy   Monday, December 24, 2001, 15:25 GMT
I agree that my examples (CNN, movies) may not be the best but it is technically possible that if a TV station provided only American pronunciation it would be possible to learn American pronunciation without even noticing the British one.

If a learner lives in USA it's easy to overcome Assumption 1 and learn American pronunciation without having any technical knowledge about the British variant.
anitha   Wednesday, February 13, 2002, 23:13 GMT
i can write english, but while communicating only the problem arises.so i thought of taking some course outside is it necessary!! i think from super memo i can download thw software and i can learn it !!is it possible. today only i entered ur site, still i have to download the software. i did my masters in india.
Tom   Thursday, February 14, 2002, 10:32 GMT
to Anitha:

SuperMemo can help you learn the pronunciation (phonetic transcription) of English words, but it will not solve all your speaking problems. You still need to practice individual English sounds.
Maria   Wednesday, March 06, 2002, 19:57 GMT
So you should "ignore" what any British person says or "at least approach it carefully" better still "remove your British imput" altogether!

In other words, if you meet a British person, no matter how intelligent, educated, cultured and knowledgeable they are, no matter if they are the nicest person in the world - ignore them! Never watch any plays by any of the great British playwrights if the actors are actually British and pronounce their lines as they were intended. Never watch any of the superb award winning films - sorry, I mean movies - produced in Britain, never listen to the excellent BBC World Service and, if you hear a British accent on CNN International, switch off immediately!

You may, as a result of all this cultural and intellectual self-deprivation be a more ignorant person but hey! it's worth it to acquire an American accent, isn't it?

Now tell me why.
Tom   Wednesday, March 06, 2002, 21:42 GMT
Maria--

You have completely misunderstood this topic. Michal said you need to study British pronunciation even if all you care about is American pronunciation, so that you can more easily convert words pronounced by Britons to their American versions. I attempted to refute this by proposing another solution: not learning any words from Britons altogether. I'd like to explain two things:

1) I did not write "ignore British people". I did write "ignore what they say", but I meant ignoring the form, not the content.

2) I never said I recommended the approach. I was merely considering it as an alternative technique to acquire "pure" American English.
Maria   Thursday, March 07, 2002, 20:39 GMT

>>>I did write "ignore what they say", but I meant ignoring the form, not the content.<<<<

Oh right, of course, how silly I am! So you're saying then that learners should watch British plays and films, should listen to the World Service, should converse with nice, cultured British people – just ignore the form!

Are you aware of how the pronunciation of most native speakers changes when they move to another part of the English speaking world? It happens naturally and unconsciously through contact with the local variety – we can’t ignore the form so please explain how you think learners are going to be able to.
Jakub Opoczynski   Sunday, March 10, 2002, 03:28 GMT
This is a rhetorical argument. There is no need to learn British English if you want to learn American English. The two dialects are different, but equally valid. It's true that British English came first, but that doesn't make it better. What has made American English equally great are American writers, such as Hemingway, Faulkner, Frost, and many others.