The Future of English

Dwayne   Friday, December 10, 2004, 21:10 GMT
There are Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.

All these numbers about English learners hardly tell anything about how many people can watch English movies, read English books, and communicate with others on different topics. The percent of fluent speakers of English as a second language ivaries significantly from country to country. In general, you will find more fluent speakers of English as a second language in small countries. To my best knowledge, in rural areas of China, which contributed significantly to the total number of English learners, teaching of English is very poor - often teachers have difficulties to speak English, let alone their students. In many other countries, most English learners are satisfied with a very basic level of English. Even those who try to improve their English specify the bussness needs as the main reason; other reasons such ability to communicate with people from other countries, read English literature, etc are very low on their agenda. Such utilitarian approach leads to the predictable results -- many of them see the use of English as a burden, which trey try avoid when it is possible. Eventually, it causes a serious backlash against spread of English, and the possibility of having English as the international language may be lost forever.
Jordi   Friday, December 10, 2004, 21:36 GMT
Dear Dwayne,
I totally agree with your approach.
Joe   Friday, December 10, 2004, 23:18 GMT
I just think it's hard to establish a language that is associated with a certain culture as an "international" language. I think English is at the moment a very international language in that it allows people to speak across cultures. For example, someone that speaks Arabic and English but not Spanish can converse with a Spanish speaker who speaks English as well but not Arabic.

But with the English language comes the mainly American culture, and that carries with it more political and cultural implications than people recognize. And that, I think, is a cause for much of the backlash. People get afraid that their language, and as a result, their culture, are in danger, and so they fight English. I can't say that I disagree with that.

Many people learn English the way Americans learn Spanish in high school. They can say a few phrases but couldn't hold a meaningful conversation in it.

I think that the best possible scenario would be that English would be a peer in a world where several languages were recongnized as global languages. That is exactly what is forecast to happen. Spanish, Mandarin, and Arabic, as well as German, (as stated in that article as well) are very well believed to rise to the forefront of the global community and be used as cross-cultural bridges. I think the fact that just one language reigns supreme allows for too much of a tendency by native Anglophones to be able to discount the importance of other languages and their need and benefits to learn at least one more.
vincent   Friday, December 10, 2004, 23:34 GMT
Això Jordi no ho m'esperava. La vertat, dir que jo soc "chauvinistic"?!!! Es ben tot el contrari! Estava criticant justament aquesta posiciò amb ironia de la llengua francesa com instrument de l'aristocràcia intel.lectual entre comilles, em burlava d'aquest esnobisme i tu el vas prendre al primer grat.

Saps, ieu abans de francés me consideri occitan e pr'aquò seria la darrièra persona a invocar una ipotetica e ridicula superioritat del francés perqué d'aquestas conarias nosautres occitans avem ( e continuem ) patit fòrça. Personalament e al contrari dels autres franceses, vesi pas lo declin del francés coma una catastròfa mas coma aquò ben normal: l'arrogància, lèu o tard, se paga.

All my comments about french language were ironical, excuse me please for no having been clearer.
Rule-meister   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 04:14 GMT
--
" "More open-minded? I'm not convinced. Even so, there are a myriad of ways of being enlightened. "

And, obviously not a single one applies to you. Or does it? "


Dear Jordi,

And, obviously you think you are better than me. Or do you have an inferiority complex?
--

Dear Joe,

My attitude might be very typical of other English speakers, but with good reasons. The levels of multilingualism in English speaking countries is probably only slightly less than that of other countries, when taking what you wrote into consideration concerning the statistics.

The vast majority of the world's citizens don't travel, except in a tourist capacity and generally stay put. In fact, a census reports that annually, less than 1% of a Western nation's population is immigrational. That's not many foreign tongues. Furthermore, most of a population is the working-class, so, for example, a tradesman doesn't need to be bilingual to perform his duties. As for the pen pushers, an infinitesimal number ever come near a "glass ceiling". For these reasons, I think you and other here, overestimate multilingualism, perhaps because you work in professions with this dependency. Translators, tourism workers and diplomats are those with such professions.
Rule-meister   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 04:17 GMT
Sorry, they were Dwayne's comments on the statistics.
Joe   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 04:55 GMT
I do agree, I even myself said, when it comes to working class jobs, it tends to be rare for a strong need for multilingual capacities. It tends to be an invaluable asset in white collar jobs. However, as you see with the outsourcing of telemarketing jobs to nations such as India, the ability to be multilingual deeply benefits Indians. And just out of circumstance, Indians tend to speak at least two languages, their own native tongue and English.

I'm a student in International Affairs, so yes multilingualism is a necessity when it comes to my career. But even if it wasn't I would still be studying languages out of my own interest.

Obviously if only around 15% of the world as a whole speaks the English language in one way or another, that leaves quite a significant chunk, 85%, that does not. Additionally, being that the largest population centers tend to be made of impoverished regions, this is not hard to comprehend. While the Netherlands may have an extremely high rate of people who are fluent in English, how many Chinese can say the same when you're talking of a population of a billion?

So is there an elite group of globetrotting multilingual people out there? There certainly is. Even within the United States, it's surprising the number of citizens that never travel abroad. I would say the most wanderlust loving citizens tend to be in the European Union, but that is from my own observation.
Jordi   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 06:11 GMT
Dear Vincent:
I didn't realise you were being ironical and although I'd read other posts from Vincent I was left wondering if you were the same one. I apologise. Anyway, your irony means that a lot of the French are exactly how you describe them and I feel it's a pity. (No passa res amic meu.)
Dear Rule-meister:
With a name such as yours I wouldn't dare argue with you about complexes. It might be hard for you to realise that some people just feel normal although, as you can see from my message to Vincent, we don't always understand the code although we might master the language.
In Europe, as a continent, I can assure people do travel for a number of reasons, and more and more so. For tourist reasons (every year), for training reasons (Erasmus programmes and such), and for work reasons (more and more important in a continent that becomes a single market without losing its own cultures and languages.) When a US citizen moves in the market from East to West coast, he obviously doesn't need to change languages although he might decide to learn Spanish in California if he already didn't do so in New York.
In Europe, one thing is English as a "sabir" (except for the happy few or those deciding to move to GB or Ireland) and another is the knowledge of languages you are going to need. I'd still learn Irish in Ireland because I love to meet and understand people at the local pub but that's me, of course.
I imagine multilingualism will be our future unless one has the feeling he lives in an island or a heavenly outpost. It doesn't matter how big the tribe is if you decide to go tribal. What's the bloody difference?
Rule-meister   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 07:00 GMT
Yes, dear Jordi, I can see you have an imagination, a tribe on your own and how it could be part of your complex. Others have their own ideas but yes, they do feel normal. So why do you feel so bloody different and special?
Rule-meister   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 07:04 GMT
Sounds like you're one of "an elite group of globetrotting multilingual people out there" as Joe put it. There is a whole other world out there, though.
Jordi   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 11:31 GMT
Dear Master of the Rules,
Since "meister" means "the master" in German (you know us, the "globetrotting multilingual mob"), and since choosing the German form of "master" does have certain 20th century connotations, for somebody who is not for multilingualism at all, I have decided to apologise and to follow with my life.
It's strange how much you know about people you don't know at all.
Come on mate! No hard feelings!
Rule-meister   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 12:48 GMT
Actually, meister is an English word, usually used with a hyphen, but don't look into the German etymology too closely for my pseudo-name is just made up.

Unfortunately, you don't read messages correctly, since you misinterpret my ideas as being anti-multilingualism. Do you normally have trouble with nuances?

There is a place for everyone in the world. Don't apologise for your microcosm, but yours isn't the only little cocoon.
Sanja   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 15:06 GMT
"There are relatively few professions that require bilingualism."

Well, if you live in Europe, or pretty much in any non-English speaking country, almost every profession requires bilingualism.
John   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 16:50 GMT
I don't believe English is going to take over the world . During Roman times, a lot of barbarians kept on using their native languages ....
Joe   Saturday, December 11, 2004, 18:05 GMT
English isn't going to take over the world. Being used as a second language is far from being close to misplacing other languages. In fact, I think it's been having a positive effect in that it's making so many cultures appreciate their own languages.

I think even in the United States multilingualism is becoming of increasing importance, due to the rise of the Spanish speaking community. As I said somewhere else, I never did think I would walk into a store and see everything in English and Spanish. We're like Québec! haha

I have quite a number of European friends, and while I haven't yet been to Europe, I take their word for it that multilingualism is pretty much a way of life. Look at it this way, even if you speak only one other language, and that language is English, you're bilingual. So bilingualism is very important.

I think it is misleading for me to have said that being multilingual is for a select group of elites. When you look at the scheme of things, it is actually more natural to be multilingual than monolingual. South Africans grow up tending to speak at least two languages, be it Afrikaans and English, English and a tribal language, etc. In India, many Indians speak several languages just out of a fact of life. It's nothing extraordinary to them. So if you look at the world community at large, many people speak more than one language.