Chinese language

Mr. Wu   Sunday, February 13, 2005, 08:02 GMT
To nishishe,
You seem to be professional. :-)
By saying that Han Yu used to be spoken exclusively by the Hans in ancient times, I didn't mean that the language was formed in the Han Dynasty. Here Han refers to one of the 56 nationalities of the Chinese nation.

Now I realize that the so-called Mandarin you guys talk about is just the Common Spoken Chinese I mentioned above.
It's Okay. Then I agree wth you that Cantonese is not a dialect of Mandarin but of Han Yu, and that Han Yu doesn't refer to just Mandarin.

As for how dialects differ, what you write above is of course more proper. But by writing about "difference in slang", I tried to include difference in grammar and core vocabularies, although it doesn't seem clear and proper.

The fact that the dialects differ greatly does surprise many us in spite of our awareness of the difference.
At university, how dialects differ usually becomes a dicussion topic when students from different provinces get together. And many students take great interest in imitating other dialcts.
Mr. Wu   Sunday, February 13, 2005, 09:01 GMT
So let me write it again after reading nishishe's comment.

1. Han Yu is only one of the many languages spoken in PRC because the Chinese nation includes more than 50 national minorities besides the Hans and different minority areas use different languages.

2. Han Yu has a great number of dialects. The dialect taught in schools thoughout the conutry and used on national TV is Common Spoken Chinese (known as Pu Tong Hua in China, and as mandarin to foreigners)

3. Most people in mainland China can speak Common Spoken Chinese though with some accent, and that is the dialect they use to communicate IN MOST CASES. If one has the opportunity to meet people from different places in China, he has to master Common Spoken Chinese. One exception is that in the early 1990s, many people in mainland China learned to speak Cantonese, because they wanted to do business with people from Guangdong Province and Hong kong.
Steve K   Sunday, February 13, 2005, 17:32 GMT
The overwhelming majority (close to 95%) of people in China are Han and they control government and the economy even in areas where they are not the majority. When we talk about the Chinese language we are talking about the language of the Han.

Most Chinese mean Mandarin when they say Han Yu. When the dialects are referred they are identified or called something else (Cantonese is sometimes called Tong Wa or Bak Wa).

The lexical differences between Cantonese and Mandarin (both of which I speak) are greatest in casual or slang like conversation. In serious discussions of politics, economics, literature etc. there is little difference in the words used, althought the pronunciation of these words differs. I assume the situation in Shanghainese is similar. I have bought a book to learn Shanghainese but have not progressed too far.

Very very few non-Cantonese bother to learn Cantonese even when they live in ShenZhen or Hong Kong for many years. This is not because it is difficult but because of the arrogance of these speakers of "the national language" towards a regional dialect.

I agree that Cantonese is a language separate from Mandarin in the same sense as Italian and French are different languages. On the other hand there are many dialects in China in the same way that there are dialects in most older societies, whereas this phenomenon is not developed in the new world.
Steve K   Sunday, February 13, 2005, 17:35 GMT
I am interested in knowing what the influence of Inner Asian languages was on present day Mandarin. Was this Mongolian or Manchurian(Jurchen) or what. When and how did this happen? Which are the sounds that are Inner Asian in origin.

It is interesting that many characters are pronounced similarly in Cantonese, Japanese and Korean.
ke   Sunday, February 13, 2005, 18:00 GMT
Steve K, you are just trying to stereotype Chinese. I know I'm not supposed to care. Anywoo, you are offensive and mean... Yea, you are.
Have you encountered all Chinese across the world? Why would you be so bloody sure the Chinese you met can represent all of us?
Steve K   Sunday, February 13, 2005, 19:19 GMT
Shall I add a generalization about Chinese people reacting with more emotion than logic when they discuss something.