Well, from what I know, Argentinan Spanish is more local-friendly than Brazilian Portuguese in terms of accepting the dialectal/vernacular grammar forms instead of promoting the ''European'' normative usage.
For instance, VOS (the Argentinian informal pronoun meaning YOU) has entered Argentinian didaction manuals and textbooks...and Argentinan children are not forced to use TU when they are @ the school. and using VOS with the TU-words (Vos sabés que yo te amo = You know I love you) is not considered ''error'' by Argentinian professors of Spanish.
The same thing is widespread in Brazilian portuguese (use of subject pronoun VOCÊ= you, together with the word TE (direct and indirect object of today obsolete subject pronoun TU=you)...Although everyone uses things like VOCÊ SABE QUE EU TE AMO = You know I love you, conservative grammarians keep considering it ''incorrect'' and you are not ''allowed'' to use it in writing. (Interestingly enough, Brazilian ministery of health uses this Brazilian grammar (mixing) feature in its promotion materials: SE VOCÊ NÃO SE CUIDAR, O AIDS VAI TE PEGAR = If you don't take care of yourself, Aids will get you...)
So, to conclude: Argentinian-friendliness of Argentinan Spanish is more accepted than Brazilian-friendliness of Brazilian Portuguese, that is, Argentinian professors are more likely to accept Argentinian grammar and usage forms (intead of Castillian forms) than Brazilian professors will accept Brazilian usage as ''correct''. ...(Many Brazilian professors still insists children should use 20 and more verb forms, and hundreds of obsolete grammar rules that are never used in Brazil...So, when a Brazilian child enters the school, he/she learns a version of Portuguese language that is not theirs...That is why Portuguese language is the most hated subject in Brazilian schools...Compare with schools all around the world where math is the most hated subject, not a languege..)
«VOCÊ SABE QUE EU TE AMO Ciclada»
So how do they want it said/written?
Voce sabe que amo você
Você sabe que amo-lhe
Você sabe que amo-lo
Assim o amor passa logo, não?
-You know I love you- in Brazilian Portuguese:
colloquial:
Você sabe que eu te amo.
(colloquial dialectal/regional:
Você sabe que eu lhe amo.
Tu sabe que eu te amo.
Tu sabe que eu lhe amo.)
both colloquial and written:
Você sabe que eu amo você.
formal usage:
O senhor sabe que eu amo o senhor. (if the loved person is male).
A senhora sabe que eu amo a senhora. (if the loved person is female).
formal written (obsolete):
Você sabe que eu o/a amo.
(o = if the loved one is male; a = if the loved one is female).
old literary usage:
Sabes que te amo.
>>What is the situation with Spanish in South and Central American countries? Do each of these countries have their own local standard of Spanish or do they all follow Standard Continental Spanish?<<
Of course they "follow" their own standard. Do American English speakers follow the British standard?
And what is their "own standard"?. What is the difference?
>>And what is their "own standard"?. What is the difference?<<
The differences lie mainly on local slang and vocabulary used to refer to some common objects. But apart from that Castilians varieties are mutually intelligible. Off the top of my head one of of the more obvious difference from Peninsular Spanish is that the "vosotros" pronoun doesn't exist in Latin America. Ustedes is used instead.
So the differences between continental Spanish and American Spanish are not that big? Not like between European and Brazilian Portugese?
<<So the differences between continental Spanish and American Spanish are not that big? Not like between European and Brazilian Portugese? >>
No, differences is Spanish are not that big at all, and speakers understand each other perfectly.
i'm brazilian and i'm from Rio, i think the portuguese from Portugal is more difficult and it's ugly and funny and wrong, they drop the vowels it makes me nervous, the brazilian portuguese is more beautiful and understandable, in MY opinion...they speak very fast and the grammar is different too, i'm not sure about it, but sometimes i hear british bands and singers, and i dont think the british english is so different from the us english,it must be my mistake but it's what i've realized. well...that it. thanx
well i'll say it in portuguese 'cause i'm not in the mood of write in english, who knows portuguese will understand who doesnt, i'm so sorry...algumas coisas que a ciklada disse estao certas outras nao, por exemplo, sobre dizer q VOCÊ SABE QUE EU TE AMO, eu posso dizer isso e posso escrever tambem, isso nao ta errado, desculpa se eu tiver entendido errado oq vc quis dizer Ciklada, me corriga se eu estiver errada, realmente eh verdade q no Brasil nós, brasileiros, temos q aprender varios tempos verbais q nos nem usamos, q só em Portugal eles usam, acho isso uma falta de tempo e burrice mesmo pq a gente nunca vai usar esse tipo de linguagem e só desperta o desgosto pela materia, pq num presta mesmo nem deveriam ensinar esses tempos verbais que nós aprendemos na escola, mais tudo bem, bom era só isso q eu queria dizer mesmo, foi só pq eu nao entendi pq a Cickala disse q a frase VOCÊ SABE QUE EU TE AMO, seria considerada errada por professores brasileiros. obrigada
The standard/neutral Brazilian accent is that of Brazil's capital: Brasília. (It is the accent of TV GLOBO's newscaster Ana Paula Padrão
The other neutral accent is that of Espírito Santo state.
The speech of Rio is often seen as too regionally marked, but there are many sub-accents in the city/state of Rio itself...We can find 1. the cultivated Rio accent (TV GLOBO's newscaster Fátima Bernardes, Rio-born singer Paula Toller), which is less palatalized (not every s is reas as sh) and less nasal; 2. the average Rio-accent (heavily palatalized, but not very nasal, and I and U are not moved to the center of the vocalic triangle), this is the accent of Marisa Monte and Bebel Gilberto; 3. the forced/exaggerated Rio-accent (heavily palatalized, heavily nasalized, R's tend to become uvular (not velar or an aspiration like in the cultivated or average Rio-accent), I sounds more like english I in LIVE than the normal Brazilian I (that sounds like EA in LEAVE, but shorter), U sounds more like U in English PUT, than a normal Brazilian U that sounds like OO in
English FOOD, but shorter)...and finally we have the 4. lowclas Rio-speech that is like the forced Rio-accent, but with final -S being not pronounced, and the pronoun TU being frequently used (instead of the Brazilian standard form VOCÊ).
(So many Cariocas say: TU FALOU PRA MIM = You told me instead of more general Brazilian (and regionally not marked) usage VOCÊ FALOU PRA MIM = You told me. Notice that the correct TU-usage can only be found in Brazilian state of Maranhão: TU FALASTE PRA MIM = You told me).
Rio-accent (know as ''Carioca) and the ''Caipira''accent (accent of the Inland of the states of São Paulo and SouthernMinas Gerais) are not allowed in Brazilian news (unless it is news coverage on local TVs)...
So, Rio-born Fátima Bernardes was forced to change her average-carioca accent to cultivated Rio accent, that is, she cannot pronounce SH instead of S....(Festas ''parties'' 'fehsta' in General Brazilan Portuguese,
'fehshtas' in Northeastern Brazilian Portuguese, 'fehshtash' in Carioca-Portuguese)...
The accent of Manaus palatalizes all S's (but not in the accent of all people), but their accent is less nasal, their R's are pronounced like H in English and they are not uvular (or velar) as in Rio-accent, and they U's are not fronted, neither they I's are backed...So, all Brazilians find Manaus accent more acceptable than the Rio-accent.
I'll translate what Brazilian Girl wrote for the benefit of those who don't speak Portuguese on the forum:
"Some of the things that Ciklada said are true, others aren't. For example, with regard to the phrase "Você sabe que eu te amo"...I can speak and write this way. It's not considered wrong. (Forgive me if I misunderstood what you wanted to say, Ciklada. Please correct me if I'm wrong). It's true, in Brazil we have to learn various verb tenses that we Brazilians don't use, but are used only in Portugal. I think this is not only silly, but a waste of time since no one is going to speak this way in his/her everyday life and it only causes one to dread learning the material. It's really not worth it for them to teach this in school.
Any way that's all I wanted to say. It was only because I didn't understand what Ciklada meant when she said 'Você sabe que eu te amo' would be considered wrong by Brazilian teachers. Thank you."
For those who like to criticize native speakers of English for lax spelling and Internet abbreviations, Brazilian Girl's post is an excellent example of how this occurs in all languages, especially over the Internet (no offense to Brazilian Girl, by the way).
Common chat abbreviations in Portuguese:
"q" or sometimes "k" = que
vc = você
pq = porque
tb = também
naum = não
eh = é
These are just some I see from time to time.
vo6 = vcs = vocês (you, plural)
kd = cadê (where is/are?)
9dade = new thing, piece of news :)
kd vo6 = where are y'all? :)
The same occurs in Italian, where they informally write 6 (=sei) for ARE:
6 grande = you're great :)
That just made me smile, because I was so confused the first time I went to an Italian chatroom, because they do that and more very heavily. Even something silly like the word "per" is abbreviated to "x" which is pronounced "per" in Italian, only I did not know that at the time!
More information on "x" in the Italian language: It does not exist as a letter, but as in English, it is used as the sign of multiplication. 6 x 5 = sei per cinque.
