Stereotyping of the northern accents in the UK

polish_girl_in_birmingham   Wednesday, May 11, 2005, 17:03 GMT
Hi,

I am currently writing a thesis on the (negative) stereotyping of northern English accents in the UK. Unsurprisingly really - I have just moved to Birmingham!

I've read a few threads here on the Antimoon forum and it seems that many of you have already touched on the subject of local accents as well as foreign accents, there was even a person who found Polish accent to be one of their favourites ! (hi Damian)

Anyway, for my thesis I need to do an attitude survey on British speakers, and wondered whether any of you could help? It would not be long, I'd expect it to take about 15 minutes of your time, certainly no more. I am going to distribute the survey among my friends, but if there are any volunteers who wouldn't mind ticking a few boxes and telling me about some of their experiences.. I am going to need all the help I can get.
Any replies would be greatly appreciated.

Kasia
Adam   Wednesday, May 11, 2005, 17:33 GMT
I've got a Northern English accent. Thank God. I'm glad I don't have any other type of accent.
polish_girl_in_birmingham   Wednesday, May 11, 2005, 19:53 GMT
Adam,
that's brilliant. I personally am v fond of all northern accents, Yorkshire has to be one of the favourites (I love Leeds) and I really like the Scottish accent (David Tennant - a reason as good as any!).
I have been thinking of posting my questionnaire/survey on here, maybe then you and some other people could actively support my research into northern accents?
First, though, I have to finish it off!

Saluti

Kasia
greg   Wednesday, May 11, 2005, 21:09 GMT
Adam : the only accent you have is the accent of stupidity, frustration, ignorance and tediousness.
Damian   Wednesday, May 11, 2005, 22:14 GMT
Hello KASIA:

Hope you're enjoying your stay with us here in the UK AND that you like Leeds. I was there 3 years at uni graduating last summer. Great fun city as well...I had a fantastic time there. I'm sure you found the Yorkshire people as friendly and down to earth as I did. It's a big county by UK standards.....have you been around it much?

You're in Birmingham now...down there in the heart of the Midlands and you're doing a thesis on Northern accents? I reckon these only have a negative effect on people from the South of England who think that anyone who comes from anywhere north of Watford Gap is some sort of sub species of the human race. I am a Scot and to us Yorkshire and the rest of Northern England are way down in the "Deep South" and the South of England is somewhere in the region of the Antarctic! In Scotland England itself is always referred to as "Down South". LOL

Anyway, if you like I could help you with your questionnaire/survey. Will you be able to post it in here when you have completed it?

There is quite a range of Northern English accents...from Scouse (Liverpool) to Geordie (North East England/Tyneside/Tees-side), with Mancunian (Manchester), Lancastrian, Yorkshire, Humberside, Cumbrian.. etc ..in between. Only one of those do I not like too much, personally.. I won't say which one right now!

I did enjoy chatting with the Polish people I met when I worked as a supermarket checkout operator during my time at uni. As you know there are lots of Poles in the UK working all sorts of jobs right now, most of them for the summer season during their vacations. Nearly all of them spoke very good English....I'm not sure though if they all had the same kind of accent as they did so...I can't recall that to be honest. Maybe they did but I was more interested in what they had to say! and anyway, I was not really supposed to chat at length with the customers! ..I just like to live dangerously!
Londoner   Wednesday, May 11, 2005, 22:42 GMT
northerners suck LOL the most uncultivated British accent It's like speaking southern redneck american accent ....LOL
Lazar   Thursday, May 12, 2005, 04:01 GMT
It's pretty common for /V/ to become /U/ in Northern England, right?
polish_girl_in_birmingham   Thursday, May 12, 2005, 15:27 GMT
Hello

Damian -
thanks for your offer of help. My questionnaire needs a few more days of work i guess and i am gong to try and post it on here. It would be great if you could have a look at it. Also, I have to tell you how much i loved Edinburgh. Went to the Fringe last summer and absolutely adored the views on the mediaeval city. Although sadly didn't hear as many Scots as I would have liked to, teh city was being literally raided by tourists! Anyway my next stop in Scotland will be the Mackintosh house in Glasgow. Have you been I wonder?
The heart of the Midlands, as you have beautifully put it - speaks with a northern accent , according to Peter Trudgill anyway (and who am i to say otherwise!!). Guess it's the similar "u" and "a"... Plus the northerness of the Midlands fits v well with my topic - the sigma on Brummie will nicely jazz up my thesis! So I am going to go with that interpretation. Although many "Northerners" find such a state of things strange, when i tell them. Not so much the Mdlanders, mind you, maybe they are just too confused, from what i've seen and heard they are v much perplexed as to their identity.


greg and Londoner-
what you say is very interesting. To think that my supervisor wanted me to first prove in my thesis that there still is such a thing as prejudice in the southerners' perception of the North, rather that just start from the point that it exists!

LOndoner, i would not personally equate the accent of the American south with those of teh North of England. Or with stupidity for that matter, greg. Not that I am biased, or anything:)

many thanks everybody

Ich melde mich bald!
polish_girl_in_birmingham   Thursday, May 12, 2005, 15:29 GMT
the stigma on Brummiie, of course

k
Sander   Thursday, May 12, 2005, 15:30 GMT
=>Ich melde mich bald!<=

Thought she was polish?
Travis   Thursday, May 12, 2005, 15:32 GMT
Who says that poles living in the UK can't speak German necessarily?
Damian   Thursday, May 12, 2005, 18:54 GMT
KASIA:

I would like to help you if I can. Whenever. I've only been through Birmingham by train and you're right...stigma....the Brummie accent is the one that's made fun of most...it just seems as if the people speaking it are stupid which of course they aren't at all. I bet it's the accent most people try to get rid of when they go to uni and then enter the professional world. It's a fact that you would never find a professional person....a doctor or a lawyer or whatever..who still had a strong Brummie accent. No way. It really seems to be an English "thing" anyway...the accent stuff. There is little difference here in Scotland in the accent of reasonably educated people from different levels of society...except for those right at the bottom sort of the pile sort of thing if you know what I mean.

Not being familiar with the area I don't know how accents overlap down in the Midlands of England. To me the Midlands are a sort of buffer zone between the South and the North of England..two areas divided by a common Language LOL! Heard that before somewhere......something about an Ocean :-)

Glad you liked my home city. August....the Edinburgh Festival and the fantastic fringe. Half the world seems to be here so you would have to look really hard to find us natives...we get taken over. Don't expect to hear much English spoken in our lovely streets. Many people in my part of Edinburgh (Corstorphine) stay away from the city centre in August.
kasia   Thursday, May 12, 2005, 19:41 GMT
Damian,
Now and then sir!
Birmingham is a great city, perhaps not overwhelmingly beautiful, but definitely worth a visit. If you're ever in the area, let me know, we could show you around. There are some excellent bits of new architecture in teh centre, beautifully mixing the old and the new - truly eclectic! And there's selfridges! :) it looks like an octopus - great!
As for teh accent, from my research so far, it is the Black Country accent that people think of as Birmingham, and apparently they are not the same thing at all. Being a foreigner you don't hear those things as well though.

YOu ask about Yorkshire - I have been in a few places - went to a wedding in Sheffield about 3 years ago and since then visited a few times, went to York a few times as well, know a lovely couple thre with three young kids, one is a baby still, actually, so love going there. Seen the old bit, but not been to the Vikings museum. Also been to MIddlesborough (but is that Teeside?? you drive through miles and miles of heather - unforgettable) and to a little place called Epworth (home of the Wesleys???:) that's near Doncaster. Doncaster - great old indoor market - saw blanched tripe there - and I'll never forget that!!!! BUt hey, you probably have haggis for breakfast :)
Leeds- what can I say - a great shopping experience!! BUt I went there on a bumpety bum bus, so didnt feel v well afterwards
and that's where I learnt " Now and then" :)

Edinburgh - I was really lucky and stayed at a friend's house in Windsor Street - literally a stone's throw away from Leith Walk and Calton Hill - a huge house, unbelieveable. Their landing was teh size of our living room!

I loved the "two areas divided by a common language" thing you said, v apt. Do you mind if I use it in my thesis?

It is interesting that professional people feel they have to change the way they speak. BUt I know what you mean. I heard a doctor who had a student shadowing them say that the student's accent was too strong and unless she stayed in teh area, she wouldnt be able to get a job as a doctor. Now that is sad. I have also heard of people having to change their accent for job interviews - esp. Scouse. There are quite a lot of those stories on the web.



Sander -

I speak German, though am not proficient. Went to uni in Tuebingen for a year and lived in Stuttgart, much good it did me - they speak Schwaebisch there: "isch" "fenschter" etc. A very conservative area of Germany it is too. No good for a Pole! :)



kasia
Sander   Thursday, May 12, 2005, 19:48 GMT
I just found it odd that after a perfectly typed English text you ended in german. :)

=>A very conservative area of Germany it is too. No good for a Pole! :)<=

You mean that in a nazi way ? ;/
kasia   Thursday, May 12, 2005, 20:15 GMT
> I just found it odd that after a perfectly typed English text you ended in german. :) <

Must have been because everybody here seems to be able to speak at least fifteen languages... And as I couldn't join in the discussion of the cases in Icelandic... well, ignore me. Even I ignore me sometimes.




=>A very conservative area of Germany it is too. No good for a Pole! :)<=
You mean that in a nazi way ? ;/


That's a difficult one. I hate to generalise, as I met a few great people there, but somehow, unfortunately, I'd always notice a change in the way people would speak to me after they found out I wasn't English. My landlady almost changed her mind about renting her flat to me. When I was looking for a car on the internet, a PhD student (!!!) told me to simply go out onto the streets and steal the first one I liked. There was more, too.
I don't suppose I could ever be happy there though. Unless I spent a fortune on therapy!!! :))
Do not get me wrong - I know the reasons why Polish people as perceived as they are there. But I dont' feel I have the strength to fight against such deep bias every day. It is much as what Damian said the southerners think of the North - we to them are uncouth barbarians. In fact two girls at uni once talked me through their perception of Europe: it ends where Germany ends. I didn't dare ask them what is further east. The scary bit is that they were in the 7th semester of political sciences!!!

greetings

k