German or English? Which is harsher?

I'm a native German speaker; but, have been learning English for quite a while now. And one thing I realized is that English is not nearly as harsh as German. Everything in German is expressed every syllable, everything. In English, it's just slurred...and slurred...

What's your take?

That's a pretty subjective statement. Really, when dealing with languages' overall "sound" it's really hard to find scientific basis confirming one language is "harsher" than another, or that another is more "clear" or spoken faster. Those are all opinions (altho we're all free to have them, of course), but not really backed up with any evidence.

Of course, many people may find the presence of such sounds as /x/ in German and its usual absence in English as an example of "harsher" sounds that characterize German, but even then, the front-vowel allophone /ç/ I personally think is a pretty "soft" sound. Also, I find it interesting that many languages not usually characterized as "harsh" have some of the very German sounds such as /x/ that are described as "harsh" in German but not in the other languages---Spanish is a good example of that.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by how English is "slurred" but that's also pretty subjective--there are many things such as cliticization, contractions, and sound assimilations that may differentiate spoken English from its very conservative and abstract written counterpart, but that doesn't mean the sounds are being "slurred."

Anyway, I don't think of German as necessarily harsh--I think it's beautiful to listen to personally and I'm looking forward to learning more (I've been kind of teaching myself for the time being but I'm taking a class on it this fall).

Keep in mind, when I say harsh. I'm not trying to put down German. I just think it's harsh. I love the language, probably more than English...I just think it's quite a bit harsher.

And the first few years I heard English, it most definitely was one of the most slurred languages I'd ever heard.

"Harsh" wouldn't be the adjective which I'd use to describe German; "clean" and "sharp" would probably be better adjectives to use overall for it, in my opinion. I don't think of it like many Americans might stereotypically think of German, thanks to things like bad WW2 movies and Triumph des Willens. If anything, it seems carefully enunciated, but not "yelled" at all, unlike some would think.

As for English being "slurred", depends on what kind of English one's speaking of. If one's speaking of formal spoken English, I myself at least tend to enunciate it not that much differently from how I enunciate German, except that my enunciation of German is far less palatalized than even my formal English. However, though, I rarely speak such in an everyday fashion, and normally use it either for effect or when speaking to individuals who I don't think would be familiar with my native dialect, who're usually non-native English-speakers.

However, informal spoken English here is another matter unto itself. It tends very heavily towards elision and assimilation, which would be the "slurring" that you're referring to. However, the clincher is that it tends far more heavily towards cliticization than formal spoken English, to the point that one can have things which are pronounced as individual words, yet which are syntactically three or so words packed together. However, due to elision and assimilation and other phonological processes, as well as individual clitics in spoken language being not at all "standardized", so to speak, whatsoever, often what the individual words are may be non-obvious if one is not familiar with the dialect in question. This has the effect of both "compressing" what is being said, sometimes to extreme degrees, while simultaneously obscuring it from many, especially those whose contact with English is primarily with the written or formal spoken languages.

Even with perfect enunciation and precision, English can seem quite jumbled. I think the pace at which most native English speakers talk as well as the amount of short words and idioms in the language makes it quite hard to understand when listening.

Well,its all a bit subjective.I mean compared to other language,such as my own,German sounds like daisies.Since the last time we discusted the harshness of German,I still think its a bit feminine,but on the whole I agree with Travis ,German is sharp and clean.

Is German harsher then English?
Yes for me it is but its a very small difference.

<<I think the pace at which most native English speakers talk as well as the amount of short words and idioms in the language makes it quite hard to understand when listening.>>

That is subjective. Linguistic studies have proven that speakers of different languages as a whole don't speak any faster than other speakers, despite what it may seem like. Of course, when people aren't native speakers of any given language and they're listening to natives prattle away with other native speakers, it's natural to think they speak "faster," simply because the nonnatives may not understand everything, or it may take them a few moments to catch up with every utterance. You may notice that people from all over describe other speech varieties, whether they be different dialects or different languages, to be spoken "faster."

When spoken appropriately ENGLISH can be sweet and mellifluous, gentle and melodious, lyrical and lilting and soft as the gentle flutter of a butterfly's wings! :-)

On the other hand it can sound every bit as harsh and discordant as the worst German can chuck at you. Maybe the reverse is true as well.....I'm not qualified to comment on the German perspective as all I know is what I've heard in films (discounting the sterotypical old war films and Hitler speeches and all that stuff) and hearing German tourists speak (or Austrians or Swiss who speak German as their native Labnguage).

"we discusted the harshness of German,I still think its a bit feminine"

German is/sounds feminine only to extra-harsh guttural Dutch speakers...

It's just a matter of perception and I can understand the extra-harsh guttural Dutch perspective regarding the less harsher German...

German does not sound feminine at all to most of Europeans

No,it absolutely does'nt.But its all a matter of perspective.I agree 100%

Whether we're taking exams in English or German Language studies it seems that our papers are going to be marked by computers. Now all we need is for computers to sit the exams for us! Cool idea.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/06/05/nexam05.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/06/05/ixportaltop.html

Most people will say they think German sounds very harsh. So what? Is there a point to any of this?

"German or English? Which is harsher?"
german.

>When spoken appropriately ENGLISH can be sweet and mellifluous, gentle and melodious, lyrical and lilting and soft as the gentle flutter of a butterfly's wings! :-) <


I agree Damian. But I also believe that applies to every language. ;)

German...By far. English is sort of soft in my opinion. And this comes from someone who speaks French...so.