the dutch/afrikaans/west flemish link

andre in south africa   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 20:44 GMT
Why Sander? ;)
Sander   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 20:48 GMT
The way you use your verbs is allmost totally different from ours..almost unbelievble.
andre in south africa   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 21:12 GMT
Sander, one thing about Afrikaans is that it partly developed uncontrolled, and partly very strongly controlled. So many of the rules today were carefully thought through, while others... well, just happened. That is the part that makes Afrikaans difficult for non-native speakers to learn. Even we get confused!!!

Of the two examples that I posted, the last one is the better one. Yet the first one is also perfectly good Afrikaans.
Sander   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 21:16 GMT
Well,Dutch is versatile as well,its not like there's only one way to say something,but its very strict on the way how.While I got the feeling (!) that you can ever talk backwards in Afrikaans they'll still understand you.

BTW.When I post a sentence in Dutch do you think the words (verbs and word order) are strange?
andre in south africa   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 21:21 GMT
Sometimes yes, (compared to Afrikaans), but sometimes it more or less the same as in Afrikaans. Yes, Afrikaans is very flexible, which, according to many English South Africans, makes it difficult to learn. The Dutch influence is still strong in Afrikaans, though.
andre in south africa   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 21:41 GMT
>While I got the feeling (!) that you can ever talk backwards in Afrikaans they'll still understand you. <

Well, I won't go that far, Sander! ;)
Damian in Edinburgh   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 22:09 GMT
I just came home early this evening didn't feel too good so abandoned my friends till tomorrow. Just messing around on net and looked up Afrikaans and found this site with this song. It says it was a Boer song.....put me right ANDRE...the Boers were the original Dutch settlers in SA weren't they?

My Sarie Marais is so ver van mij af
Ek hoop haar weer te sien
Sy het in die wijk van Mooirivier gewoon
Nog voor die oorlog het begin
O bring my terug na die ou transvaal
Daar waar my Sarie woon
Daar onder in die mieleis by die groen doring boom
Daar woon my Sarie Marais

If this is Afrikaans it looks exactly the same as Dutch to me.
andre in south africa   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 22:18 GMT
Damian


My Sarie Marais is so ver van my hart
Ek hoop om haar weer te sien
Sy het in die wyk van die Mooirivier gewoon
Nog voor die oorlog het begin

O bring my t'rug na die ou Transvaal
Daar waar my Sarie woon
Daar onder by die mielies by die groendoringboom
Daar woon my Sarie Marais



yes, still a popular folk song.

>the Boers were the original Dutch settlers in SA weren't they? <

Nope. The term Boer refers to the Dutch speaking farmers in the Eastern Cape in the 1800's. The Dutch descendents in the Western Cape were known as Cape Dutch, and later Afrikaners. After 1910, when SA became a union, the term Boers disappeared, and all became Afrikaners. Today, *Boer* is only used as a derogatory term.
andre in south africa   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 22:30 GMT
Damian

What happened was when the English took over the Cape Colony from the Dutch, they heard the farmers in the Eastern Cape refer to themselves as *boere* (farmers). The English thought they meant their nationality...
Damian in Edinburgh   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 22:31 GMT
Oops...bet you think I'm ignorant..sorry! Thanks for that. Did I offend in my ignorance? I'm sure it said it was a Boer song in the site I just visited and all I really know is that there was a Boer war more than a hundred years ago and didn't know what it was all about and I had NO idea that Boer was derogatory.
andre in south africa   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 22:33 GMT
the whole song...


[1]
My Sarie Marais is so ver van my hart,
maar'k hoop om haar weer te sien.
Sy het in die wyk van die Mooirivier gewoon,
nog voor die oorlog het begin.

[KOOR]
O bring my t'rug na die ou Transvaal,
daar waar my Sarie woon,
daar onder in die mielies by die groen doringboom,
daar woon my Sarie Marais,
daar onder in die mielies by die groen doringboom,
daar woon my Sarie Marais.

[2]
Ek was so bang dat die Kakies my sou vang
en ver oor die see wegstuur;
toe vlug ek na die kant van die Upington se sand
daar onder langs die Grootrivier.

[KOOR]
O bring my t'rug na die ou Transvaal,
daar waar my Sarie woon,
daar onder in die mielies by die groen doringboom,
daar woon my Sarie Marais,
daar onder in die mielies by die groen doringboom,
daar woon my Sarie Marais.

[3]
Die Kakies is mos net soos 'n krokodillepes.
Hul sleep jou altyd water toe.
Hul gooi jou op 'n skip vir 'n lange, lange "trip",
die josie weet waarnatoe.

[KOOR]
O bring my t'rug na die ou Transvaal,
daar waar my Sarie woon,
daar onder in die mielies by die groen doringboom,
daar woon my Sarie Marais,
daar onder in die mielies by die groen doringboom,
daar woon my Sarie Marais.

[4]
Verlossing het gekom en die huis toe gaan was daar,
terug na die ou Transvaal;
my liewelingspersoon sal seker ook daar wees
om my met 'n kus te beloon.

[KOOR]
O bring my t'rug na die ou Transvaal,
daar waar my Sarie woon,
daar onder in die mielies by die groen doringboom,
daar woon my Sarie Marais,
daar onder in die mielies by die groen doringboom,
daar woon my Sarie Marais.
Damian Edinburgh   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 22:37 GMT
Thanks again, ANDRE. Is there a site where you can hear the song? I'd love to hear how Afrikaans sounds.....bet you say very similar to Dutch but I'd like to judge for myself. :-)

You know what Andre...to my knowledge I've never met a South African!
andre in south africa   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 22:39 GMT
>Oops...bet you think I'm ignorant..<

Didn't think you're ignorant, nor did you offend, Damian :)

The residents of the former Transvaal and Orange Free State were also known as Boers - hence Anglo-Boer War. But, as I mentioned, after 1910, when SA became a union, the term Boer disappeared in favour of Afrikaner. Today, I would be offended if anyone called me a Boer, because of certain political connotations. But don't worry, you didn't offend me! :))
andre in south africa   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 22:46 GMT
>Thanks again, ANDRE. Is there a site where you can hear the song? I'd love to hear how Afrikaans sounds.....bet you say very similar to Dutch but I'd like to judge for myself. :-)

You know what Andre...to my knowledge I've never met a South African! <

Looking for one, Damian. ;)
Damian   Saturday, June 11, 2005, 22:47 GMT
cool! Now I can stop shaking! :-)