Official languages of the US

guest   Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:04 pm GMT
I am from Northern California (so-called Silicon Valley). Let me add my two cents too, and please excuse my bad English.

The first reply to the topic ("why the US haven't declared any languages as their official language") was Kirk's:"I don't think we need to".

But some states do! "... Alabama, California, Florida, New Hampshire and Oregon have made English the official language at the state level" (Wikipedia)

I think we are mixing up two different things here: official language as it's declared in state documents and a linguistic practice itself. Although the California Constitution has specified English as official, all the billboards, answering machines in the banks, hospitals, government organizations, the DMV's brochures - ALL almost necessarily goes with Spanish translation (and often SPANISH comes first!); nurses in community hospitals indeed all speak Spanish, in buses everything written in Spanish and Vietnamese, etc. And considering that Chinese is the third most spoken language here, followed by Tagalog and Vietnamese, and how many Indians, Russians, Koreans, Iranians live here with their schools, papers, stores, restaurants - you can imaging how multilingual California is! And I like it. As a minority I have nothing at all against English being an official language. But probably someone does.
Tiffany   Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:22 pm GMT
Correction: after reading your long paragraph Riko, I realize you just visited California. My post still stands but I'd like to know - have you ever lived in California for any extended period of time? Because I have to think you have not for you to say these things.
Kirk   Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:07 pm GMT
I did not see Riko's post back in August, so I'll respond to some of the comments now (I can't respond to all of them--that'd take too long)....

<<You stated that the occupied territory of the US southwest was Mexican for only 28 years. But it is important to note that it was Spanish for over 400 years.>>

Sure. But do, remember, again, that thruout all the years of California's time under Spanish rule there were never more than about 5,000 Spanish speakers withint the current area that is California. The vast majority of the people that were here were indigenous people who continued to speak indigenous languages even by the time Mexico became its own nation. California never had large populations of native Spanish speakers, tho indigenous people living near the missions did eventually learn some Spanish.

<<The idea that English belongs in the US southwest and that it is more 'native' in California or Colorado is ridiculous. Spanish has NOT been a foreign language since the days of the first Spanish expeditions in Florida and the southwest that opened those areas up to the western world about 500 years ago.>>

Uh, as far as things go, techically both English and Spanish are historically "foreign" languages to the region. Also, no one at all is claiming a lot of things you're assuming people think (such as that English is "native" to the region).

<<When you speak about your US-Mexican classmates, you speak of a specific group. If most of the Spanish speaking population felt like the students at your university, then such mega TV networks like Univision, Telemundo, Azteca America, Galavision, would not exist in this country. Companies like Kraft, Head and Shoulders, Ford, GM, Sony, Wal-Mat, etc, would not bother to broadcast their ads in Spanish.>>

Again, you're assuming things I didn't say. Of course there is a large market for Spanish-speaking TV networks and ads. However, do note that a lot (but not all) of what keeps them sustained is steady immigration of largely monolingual Spanish speakers to the US.

<<The US began as a string of 13 colonies clinging to the Atlantic Ocean. George Washington didn't kick the British out of San Diego. To the south and west was vast Spanish territory, where Spanish culture, forms, practice and LANGUAGE dominated.>>

Do you know anything about the history of the indigenous people here under Spanish rule? I think they would've begged to differ that their culture and territory was one which was entirely "Spanish." That's not reality.

<<We should ask ourselves, why should it be so revolutionary to accomodate the historical linguistic minority that has spoken Spanish in this nation since its outset? Why not have a federal government that you can communicate with and stay informed in Spanish, rather than English?>>

This has been discussed by others, but also keep in mind that Spanish is one of literally hundreds of languages spoken in the US. The US does not just have Spanish and English speakers in it. However, in areas where Spanish is widely spoken, as with other minority languages, Spanish speakers *are* accommodated, as Uriel mentioned.

<<The total denial by the Anglo establishment of the Spanish southwest will let these problems continue to fester.>>

"Anglo" again? Where are all these "Anglos?" I know comparatively few. Once again, at least California is about 8% of Anglo descent.

<<If one's family is Spanish speaking, do you think that one would switch to English, a foreign language, because they personally decide to? People of Latin American background have no choice but to have a firm grasp of English in this country.>>

This is nothing new in the US. The same thing happened all over Latin America with lots of groups of people who came to speak Spanish who historically didn't, whether we're talking about immigrants (such as the massive waves of Italian immigrants to Argentina) or indigenous people in Latin America who were not historically Spanish-speaking. People change languages as they move or political situations change. It happens and has been happening thruout human history.

<<An elementary school in my area (in overwhelmingly non-Hispanic Maine) offers basic instruction in Spanish, not to help those learning English, but to give Anglo(phone) parents the opportunity to teach their children the second national language of the United States.>>

Yes...that's true. The same happens here. Your point?

<<In those 28 years of Mexican administration, which you claim are insignificant and have no historical value whatsoever,>>

You're putting words in my mouth. You misread my comments.

<<If you truly loved Spanish as you claim Kirk, you should review some of your statements. Why not take a North American history course in a Mexican university or college in Spanish, a language that you are fluent in?>>

I studied abroad in Argentina and took several history classes there (in Spanish) on Latin American history, if it's important to you. I've also taken classes on various parts of US history, and specifically the regions of Southern California. I'm no expert but I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about here.

Oh yeah, and since I also live in California I can base my comments off of years of relevant real-life experience instead of passing notions of the place from visiting or reading about it.
Kirk   Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:12 pm GMT
<<Let me also add my wo cents, as I am from Northern California. Spanish speakers may also speak Spanish at the supermarket if they so please, and be served. I have witnessed this on many occasions.>>

Me too. In the grocery store closest to my home growing up, I was just as likely to hear English as some other language commonly spoken in the area. People in the store openly and regularly chatted and got served in English, Spanish, Punjabi, Hindi, Chinese, Portuguese, and Assyrian, languages commonly spoken in my hometown in the San Joaquin Valley.

<<Correction: after reading your long paragraph Riko, I realize you just visited California. My post still stands but I'd like to know - have you ever lived in California for any extended period of time? Because I have to think you have not for you to say these things.>>

Yes Riko's lack of real experience in California is obvious from what he's written.

<<I think we are mixing up two different things here: official language as it's declared in state documents and a linguistic practice itself. Although the California Constitution has specified English as official, all the billboards, answering machines in the banks, hospitals, government organizations, the DMV's brochures - ALL almost necessarily goes with Spanish translation (and often SPANISH comes first!); nurses in community hospitals indeed all speak Spanish, in buses everything written in Spanish and Vietnamese, etc.>>

Exactly.

<<And considering that Chinese is the third most spoken language here, followed by Tagalog and Vietnamese, and how many Indians, Russians, Koreans, Iranians live here with their schools, papers, stores, restaurants - you can imaging how multilingual California is! And I like it.>>

Me too :)

That's the other thing I think Riko was probably not aware of or didn't realize the true extent of--Spanish and English are not the only languages spoken in California. Far from the truth.
Guest   Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:27 am GMT
"I, as a minority in the US"

Do you mean that English-speakers are a minority there?
Tiffany   Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:43 am GMT
I am a minority in terms of "race"
Tiffany   Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:54 am GMT
To be more to the point, more often that not in the US, being of a minority also takes into consideration that a person of within this minority may not have English as a mother language, or may have English and the heritage language as first tongues. As a minority, I feel my heritage language is well-preserved here.
Uriel   Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:05 am GMT
Kirk & Tiff: I have a feeling that certain people's preconceptions and prejudices about Americans will persist no matter how many facts stand in their way. ;)
Kirk   Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:36 am GMT
<<Kirk & Tiff: I have a feeling that certain people's preconceptions and prejudices about Americans will persist no matter how many facts stand in their way. ;)>>

Yeah, especially on this site, apparently.
Guest   Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:21 am GMT
Tiff is white.
Tiffany   Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:07 pm GMT
<<Kirk & Tiff: I have a feeling that certain people's preconceptions and prejudices about Americans will persist no matter how many facts stand in their way. ;)>>

This has already been proven, sadly.

<<Tiff is white.>>

Try again.
Guest   Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:33 pm GMT
"<<Tiff is white.>>

Try again."

You're not white. Am I right this time?
Tiffany   Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:50 pm GMT
Well, somewhat. I am not here to divulge my genetic background, however I have posted it before. If you care to look for it, be my guest (no pun intended) and find it, but I do not tend to get into this.
Bob   Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:50 pm GMT
Do you know how insulted I am everytime I call an American Company in this country (United States of America) and I get an automated phone answering system that says "for ENGLISH press 1 ... for SPANISH press 2".

Since when do they assume ENGLISH needs to be chosen. I am outraged and plan to do all I can to make ENGLISH our countrys OFFICIAL language.

Bob
Guest   Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:47 am GMT
<<Do you know how insulted I am everytime I call an American Company in this country (United States of America) and I get an automated phone answering system that says "for ENGLISH press 1 ... for SPANISH press 2".>>

Usually it's "For English press one. Para Español, oprima número dos" or "For English, press one. Para Español, marque el dos."