English spoken EVERYWHERE

Coleta   Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:35 am GMT
Anyway, I must admit that the most important thing is the number of secondary speakers speakers, the real speakers of the language everyday. You can see the list:

French: 200 million of secondary speakers

English: 150 million of secondary speakers

German: 50 million of secondary speakers

Spanish: 20 million of secondary speakers

There are many important statistical reasons to say that Spanish are less spoken outside its turf and less important.
Colette   Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:41 am GMT
Umm, very funny -- but I don't need to defend French to these Hispanic trolls -- I know the reality. Number of speakers is not what matters -- do they have the phrase "quality over quantity" in espanol? No matter how they try to spin it, the fact is that Spanish is not an international language. My U.S. passport has only two languages on it: English and French.
Guest   Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:52 am GMT
<< Umm, very funny -- but I don't need to defend French to these Hispanic trolls -- I know the reality. Number of speakers is not what matters -- do they have the phrase "quality over quantity" in espanol? No matter how they try to spin it, the fact is that Spanish is not an international language. My U.S. passport has only two languages on it: English and French. >>

I agree with you Colette. You see, if if we're going to base it on the number of natvie speakers then Mandarin Chinese and Hindi a re more inmportant than English and both are not used internationally.

Similarly, Spanish is virtually unknown in Eastern Europe. In fact Germans use Italian to communicate with monolingual Spanish speakin tourists in Germany.
Colette   Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:21 am GMT
<<I agree with you Colette. You see, if if we're going to base it on the number of natvie speakers then Mandarin Chinese and Hindi a re more inmportant than English and both are not used internationally.>>

Yes, I was going to bring that up myself were the troll to rear its sombrero-ridden head again -- glad you beat me to it.

<<Similarly, Spanish is virtually unknown in Eastern Europe. In fact Germans use Italian to communicate with monolingual Spanish speakin tourists in Germany.>>

Yes, I understand that it is German that is the lingua franca of Eastern Europe. Also, when I vacationed in Italy, the Italians spoke German to me when we could not otherwise understand each other. This was in La Spezia.

I'm glad to see another sane person on this board besides the few I encounter from time to time -- I hope you will give yourself a name and keep it so I recognize you in the future. "Guest" is just so -- Latin troll. ;)
John Adams   Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:36 am GMT
Spanish is a continental language. It may have more mother tongue speakers than English and French, but that doesn't matter because they're confined to Latin America. Furthermore, Latin America has very little political and economic power, so Spanish's use is limited outside of that area. It may be growing, but it will never fulfill the role that French has held (and still ceremonially holds) and that English currently holds.

French has lost some of its international clout, but there are enough powerful countries and cities where it is spoken that it is still very important language. I don't see it losing its real base of power in the Western countries.

These arguments are getting a bit ridiculous. Why are people so provincial about language? It's just a form of communication, it doesn't determine who you are.
Guest69   Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:52 pm GMT
Si, Colette, en español existe esa frase: prevalece la calidad sobre la cantidad en algunas ocasiones, pero en otras no.

Esa frase es muy relativa: Niger tiene mas calidad que Chile? Me imagino que en ningun dato macroeconomico es mejor Niger o Chad a Chile o Argentina.

Si te refieres a calidad como pais con mejor economia, entonces el holandes, el noruego o el sueco serian tambien mas importantes que el mismo frances. Esto seria absurdo.

Un idioma es internacional en funcion de diversos factores. Mencionas al hindi y al chino. El hindi no es internacional porque el mismo ingles le hace sombra en la India, donde tambien es oficial. Ademas, no se habla mucho en el sur de este pais. El caso del chino no es el mismo, todos los expertos dicen que sera una lengua muy importante.

El español, hablado por unos 500 millones de personas, en mas de 20 paises, es uno de los idiomas mas importantes del mundo. A nivel diplomatico y de organizaciones internacionales es el tercero.

Mencionas el pasaporte, donde se utiliza el ingles y el frances. El frances en gran medida vive de su pasado, ya que en 1900 era la lengua diplomatica por excelencia. Ha perdido gran parte de su grandeur, pero algo de ello conserva. No obstante, es obvio que el frances ya no es la lengua que era.

Por ultimo, el español tradicionalmente no ha sido estudiado en la Europa del Este, en donde se ha estudiado siempre aleman y ruso. Las cosas estan cambiando y se ha empezado con fuerza con el ingles, que ya es el primero. Aunque todavia sea minoritario, es mucho mas estudiado ahora que hace 10 años. Los cambios no son de la noche a la mañana.

Segun el Gobierno español y el Instituto Cervantes, el español es ya la segunda lengua mas estudiada del mundo. Asi que, Colette, si no la consideras internacional, el frances o cualquier otra lengua que no sea el ingles, menos.
Guest   Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:59 pm GMT
Spanish is a continental language. It may have more mother tongue speakers than English and French, but that doesn't matter because they're confined to Latin America.

In Europe there are 70 millions of people who speak Spanish.
Guest   Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:03 pm GMT
Guest" is just so -- Latin troll. ;)

Wannabe-frog pro-nazi mental, you are the only troll on this forum!! A very insane one!
Girl Mary   Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:25 pm GMT
<<Wannabe-frog pro-nazi mental, you are the only troll on this forum!! A very insane one!>>

You are calling someone else a troll when you consider someone who likes learning French to be a "wannabe frog" and who likes to learn German a "pro-nazi [sic] mental"? And who is the troll again? Why do you hate French and German? Is it just these languages you hate, or any others? And why don't you say your name? People may take you more seriously if you didn't hide so much and if you weren't such a hypocrite.
John Adams   Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:37 am GMT
It's hilarious how provincial and protective the Hispanic Fanatics are of their language. Guys, get over it, it's just a language. It doesn't make you any less of a person if your mother tongue isn't the most dominant language on the planet (which it isn't, not even close). You shouldn't get your panties in a bunch over the fact that you have more speakers than French yet French has a more powerful ceremonial role in international politics and economics.
El Cid   Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:04 am GMT
<< You shouldn't get your panties in a bunch over the fact that you have more speakers than French yet French has a more powerful ceremonial role in international politics and economics. >>

Ceremonial, exactly. That doesn't mean a whole lot in reality. You know what else has a Ceremonial role the Queen of England, the King of Spain and the Emperor of Japan. They have a ceremonial role, but they don't serve much purpose other then to simply exist. This is the same mentality that people have about French as an important international language.

Now, I know that French is an important language and that Spanish will not become a dominate language like English, but I also think people here make out French to be more important than it is NOW. Seriously, English has climbed at the expense of French. Constantly saying that it is the second most important international language doesn't mean a lot because in the international scene you are likely to hear English in any place where French is.

Take current UN President for example. Technically French is required, but in reality, it isn't that necessary.
Diablo Blanco   Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:10 am GMT
<<You are calling someone else a troll when you consider someone who likes learning French to be a "wannabe frog" and who likes to learn German a "pro-nazi [sic] mental"? And who is the troll again? Why do you hate French and German? Is it just these languages you hate, or any others? And why don't you say your name? People may take you more seriously if you didn't hide so much and if you weren't such a hypocrite.>>

Yes, he hates English, too. The Hispanic fanatics hate all the languages of the productive triumvirate of Europe: The United Kingdom, Germany, and France. This would include the evil spawn of England and France, the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. What the hell, let us throw in South Africa too, since it is a former Dutch colony and the Dutch were evil white guys, too.
Colette   Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:18 am GMT
<<Ceremonial, exactly. That doesn't mean a whole lot in reality. You know what else has a Ceremonial role the Queen of England, the King of Spain and the Emperor of Japan. They have a ceremonial role, but they don't serve much purpose other then to simply exist. This is the same mentality that people have about French as an important international language.

Now, I know that French is an important language and that Spanish will not become a dominate language like English, but I also think people here make out French to be more important than it is NOW. Seriously, English has climbed at the expense of French. Constantly saying that it is the second most important international language doesn't mean a lot because in the international scene you are likely to hear English in any place where French is.

Take current UN President for example. Technically French is required, but in reality, it isn't that necessary.>>

I understand where you are coming from, and I can't say that I disagree with anything that you said there, but often we who defend the French language do it mainly in response to the Hispanic fanaticism that is rampant around here. Still, thank you for being mature about it and analyzing it in an objective fashion.
El Cid   Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:56 am GMT
Thank you Colette. I hope my King, Queen analogy made sense. I just try to be realistic. I'm firstly in the Spanish camp, but I in now way hate French or German. Actually I've been looking at learning one of them. Yes there are over-zealot Spanish people, but the same can go for others.

I personally think that Spanish will not become the most important international language because of the status of English and also that Spanish has no real big powerhouse country. See? I can be pro-Spanish and not a fanatic. But, it is an important world lanuage that has gained some popularity and some people don't seem to like that. Not everywhere of course, but the same goes for French. Bottom line, only English is spoken or used somehow almost "everywhere".
Colette   Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:04 am GMT
Thank you very much, El Cid. Everything you said about Spanish is how I feel about French, except that I consider France and Canada to be powerhouse countries. Apart from that, though, I have no delusions about the fact that French is on the decline. I know that English is King and probably will remain so in our lifetimes.

I have been a language teacher in secondary schools and college and have been curious about the status of the big three foreign languages in the U.S., i.e., French, German, and Spanish. Spanish has been growing in popularity in the U.S. for years, as everyone knows, but French has been declining while German has been growing in popularity in recent years. You can find this info at the Modern Language Association.

Anyway, thanks again for being so cool about things. Wish more people in the Spanish camp were like you! :)