What on earth does a leftist and rightist mean in English?

Guest   Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:36 pm GMT
<<But in the end, isn't political power and the maintenance thereof just an end unto itself, with ideology just serving as a pretext and rationalization in the first place? >>

Is this from the real Travis?
Travis   Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:38 pm GMT
Yes, it is from the real Travis.

Ja, es ist vom echten Travis.
Guest   Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:21 pm GMT
There used to be a clash of ideologies and power was just a tool. Not anymore.
Travis   Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:31 pm GMT
No, this is how it has always been, since time immemorial. Ideology, be it secular or religious, has always just been a pretext or rationalization for pure political power and the exercise thereof in the end.
Travis   Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:34 pm GMT
Anyone can use a German translator.

Jeder kann mit einem deutschen √úbersetzer.
Travis   Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:41 pm GMT
>>Anyone can use a German translator.

Jeder kann mit einem deutschen √úbersetzer.<<

Anyways, what is your purpose here other than trolling?
Guest   Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:41 pm GMT
I do not believe so. Young ideologies tend to perceive themselves seriously.
Guest   Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:44 pm GMT
^horrible English^
Travis   Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:47 pm GMT
Even if they do, in the end it always turns out to be roughly the same (even if the direct exercise of power may vary in the amount of direct force used, as opposed to the use of "softer" forms of power). Regardless of what they happen to believe, it always turns out with just a new elite in power, if they are successful, which, as always, directly imposes its will upon the populace and or convinces the populace to believe whatever it wants. Also, while they may not be as underlyingly corrupt as more established ideologies, self-righteousness combined with trying to avenge oneself upon those whom one views as being the enemy can serve the ultimate pursuit of political power just as well.
Guest   Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:37 am GMT
<<Regardless of what they happen to believe, it always turns out with just a new elite in power, if they are successful, which, as always, directly imposes its will upon the populace and or convinces the populace to believe whatever it wants. >>


But aren't those people in power elected through voting by the populace, a process which is called "democracy"? How dare they go against the will of voters?
Travis   Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:08 am GMT
>>But aren't those people in power elected through voting by the populace, a process which is called "democracy"? How dare they go against the will of voters?<<

Oh, they go against the will of the voters all the time - it is standard operating procedures to make plenty of electoral promises and then promptly forget them or rationalize them away once elected. Furthermore, the norm in "democracy" is for the elite to tell the populace what they should believe in the first place (with their propagandistic capabilities actually being far more advanced than those in the typical authoritarian state). Likewise, the norm in "democracy" is for the parties with any real chance of being effectively elected to themselves limit any "choices" the populace may have in the first place, with all other positions being marginalized and effectively disallowed.
Travis   Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:11 am GMT
Actually, I should go further and simply say that what is called "democracy" is not about actual choice on the part of the people, but rather is about giving the people the illusion of choice, the illusion of free will, when in reality all the choices have already been made for them.
Guest   Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:24 am GMT
I couldn't agree more, Travis. The difference as I see it is; that lately (the fall of the Berlin wall) the ILLUSION is gone. The emperor is naked, if you will.
Guest   Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:25 am GMT
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
Guest   Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:29 am GMT
<<Actually, I should go further and simply say that what is called "democracy" is not about actual choice on the part of the people, but rather is about giving the people the illusion of choice, the illusion of free will, when in reality all the choices have already been made for them.>>

So are you saying the Republicans want to lose the elections? Are you saying Al Gore couldn't have won if a few more people had voted for him? What would they have done, shot him?