Is Mexican Spanish uniform?

Mexican   Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:32 am GMT
25% Amerindian looking (like the ones you find in the U.S.)

Yupp that's right, the majority of the Illegal ones going to the US fit in these ethnic background. That's why gringos think that all latinos are short, brown skinned with Amerindian features and reality those "latinos" aren't latin they are of Amerindian ancestry.
Veracruzano   Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:57 am GMT
<< Who the hell said that one must be brown skinned or indigenous to be a true Mexican???? Here in Mexico everybody born in Mexican soil (or naturalized) is a Mexican citizen with the same rights and obligations it doesn't matter if he is white, brown, black or mestizo. >>

<< 25% Amerindian looking (like the ones you find in the U.S.)

Yupp that's right, the majority of the Illegal ones going to the US fit in these ethnic background. That's why gringos think that all latinos are short, brown skinned with Amerindian features and reality those "latinos" aren't latin they are of Amerindian ancestry. >>

You racist idiot.

First you said a Mexican is a Mexican no matter what the skin color is.
Afterwards you said that those who are short, brown skinned with Amerindian features are not real "Latinos".

Try to get rid of those short, brown skinned people with Amerindian features from Veracruz and see if you're satisfied.

At least one of your ancestors had exactly those features, you pathetic.

You should really stop looking up/down to people based on their skin color.
REAL Veracruzano   Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:44 pm GMT
I didn't write the message above, I do agree with your comment Mexican, all those illegal aliens are from the lowest of the low, that's why they have completly Amerindian features, it's just the true, as I said before although we're all Meztizos these are the real percentages.

White looking 25%
Light brown with white features 50%
Amerindian looking 25% (illegal aliens)

that makes 100% in case you don't know how to count, FAKE veracruzano.
Mexican   Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:52 pm GMT
You ignorant idiot.

Do you know what is the definition of a Latin?

A Latin is person anyone who is a descendant of any Latin country in Europe; Spain, Portugal, France, Romania and Italy former territories of the Roman Empire. Since when the Indigenous people in the Americas were conquered by the Romans??? Sorry to dissapoint you but the Romans never ate tacos (an aztec food). You must take a book of history and read it it won't hurt you don't worry.

Those of Amerindian features are not Latins because they are not descendants or the Romans, they were never colonized by them, they have a different culture even thought they are Mexicans.
In fact they are some what Latinized indigenous people who never fully assimilated because they still retain their costumes and culture among other particular characteristics. They were forced to learn Spanish and adopt Iberian customs.That's one of the troubles regarding the treaty of San Andres in Chiapas, the Indians there claim that they have different culture and customs who are not recognized by the government.

Try to get rid of those short, brown skinned people with Amerindian features from Veracruz and see if you're satisfied.

In Veracruz there are mainly of descendants of blacks mixed with Indigenous people. Veracruz and Guerrero are the two states with the highest porcentage of black descendants According to the Mexican Genome Project.

At least one of your ancestors had exactly those features, you pathetic.

No I don't have ancestors in Mexico sadly, I'm second generation here, but if I do had any indigenous I wound't mind unlike you.

You should really stop looking up/down to people based on their skin color

Tell that to the rest of the country also:

http://www.vdare.com/awall/071011_memo.htm

Diversity Is Strength!...But Not For Mexican Beauty Queens

Americans are racist xenophobes while Mexicans are a mixed-race people who are therefore non-racist and tolerant, right?

We’ve all heard it.

But contrary to the self-congratulatory rhetoric, the plain fact is that Mexican society is highly stratified by race. It’s just that many Mexicans don’t want to admit it.

According to the CIA World Factbook, 60% of Mexico’s population is mestizo (European/Indigenous), 30% is indigenous, and 9% is white.

That fits in with the recent work of the Mexican Genome Project which calculates that 65% of Mexican genetic material is indigenous (i.e., American Indian) and 35% is non-indigenous (principally European and African)

Of course, the term "mestizo" is somewhat slippery. It includes individuals of mostly European ancestry and a little Indian blood, or vice versa.

The Mexican white-mestizo-Indian spectrum is a continuum. Technically speaking, the "mestizo" classification includes every Mexican with any white/Indian mixture—whether that’s 99% white and 1% Indian or 99% Indian and 1% white.

So there are mestizos at the white end of the spectrum who can pass as whites and for all practical purposes are white. At the other end of the spectrum, there are mestizos who are, racially speaking, indigenous.

It isn’t just skin color. Some Mexicans have dark skin but European facial features. Others have light skin but indigenous features.

And, although many Mexicans won’t admit it, there’s a definite correlation between racial background and socioeconomic status.

It’s not a hard and fast rule. There are plenty of exceptions. But, unmistakably, the higher one travels up the socioeconomic ladder, the whiter the Mexicans are. The farther down one travels, the darker they are.

The poorest three states in Mexico, Guerrero, Oaxaca and Chiapas, in the south, are the most indigenous. (According to the Mexican Genome Project, Guerrero is also 22% African).

Which brings me to Mexican standards of beauty—especially feminine beauty. They are racially determined too.

I encountered this phenomenon soon after moving to Mexico. My first job was teaching fifth-graders in a private school. The students were upper middle class and upper class. They were predominantly white. Some were even blond.

In one of my fifth grade classes, every student—with one exception—was white. The only exception was a nice little girl with dark-skin whose family’s economic background was not as high as some of the others.

The fifth-grade boys regarded the dark-skinned girl as the ugliest in the class. The girl wasn’t ugly, but the boys considered her so because of the color of her skin. The girl they thought the prettiest in the class was blonde.

These fifth-grade boys didn’t invent the Mexican standard of beauty. They just reflected it. It’s been going on strong for about 500 years, since the Spaniards arrived.

In Mexican show biz, whites are predominantly represented in the movies, TV and pop music.

One of Mexico’s biggest cultural exports these days is the telenovela, a genre akin to the soap opera. In these series, which are exported worldwide, the principal characters tend to be white and the dark-skinned actors portray servants. Like in real life, in other words.

Last Saturday, October 6, Mexico held its annual Miss Mexico beauty pageant (known here as "Nuestra Belleza Mexico"). The winner of this pageant goes to the Miss Universe pageant—where Miss USA was booed when it was held in Mexico City earlier this year. The runner-up goes to the Miss World contest.

This year's winner was Elisa Najera, (Photo) Elisa is a brunette but she clearly falls within the range of the white/mestizo-white range of the Mexican racial spectrum. For more photos go here.

But you can’t make up your mind from one example. I invite you to look at this photo gallery of all the Miss Mexicos since 1994. Note that they are all white, some are blonde.

The winner of "Nuestra Belleza Mexico" represents Mexico in the Miss Universe pageant, while the runner-up goes to "Miss World." If you look at Mexico’s Miss World representatives since 1995, you’ll see they are white also.

Since Mexicans use two surnames (one paternal, one maternal), you can learn a little more about their ancestry. Notice the presence among the contestants of the surnames Jones and Murray (of the British Isles) and Erhard and Honstein (Germany).

In fact, the Nuestra Belleza contest is presided over by a certain Lupita Jones, a former Miss Universe from Mexico (see photo here . ).

As a point of reference, you might visit the Miss Spain website. If you look at the recent Miss Spain winners, they aren’t that different from Mexican beauty queen types—except that the Miss Mexicos tend to be lighter-skinned.

This indicates that a Miss Mexico candidate could easily cross the pond to the "madre patria" and be competitive.

That’s especially ironic given the PC version of Mexican history. Today’s Mexicans—including white Mexicans—view the Spanish conquistadors as the bad guys and the Aztecs as the good guys (the non-Aztec Indians are usually ignored). Even white Mexicans will tell you "The Spaniards conquered us."

Nevertheless, 500 years later, the Mexican standard of beauty, as reflected in the Miss Mexico contest, is so Spaniard-oriented that a Mexican beauty queen could compete, quite probably successfully, in a Miss Spain contest.

In contrast to Mexico’s white -oriented beauty pageants, notice the racial variety of some recent Miss Americas: Ericka Dunlap, black


Erika Harold, white/black, American Indian


Angela Perez Baraquio Grey, Filipino American


And Rachel Smith, the Miss USA who was booed in Mexico City this year, was born in Panama and is officially described as "bi-racial".

So the supposedly racist U.S. has more “diversity” in its high-level beauty pageants than Mexico does.

One of the reasons that Nuestra Belleza Mexico is weighted toward the white end of the spectrum is the height requirement. In order to qualify as a candidate for the Mexican beauty pageant, a contestant is required to have a minimum height of 1.68 meters. (That’s 5’ 6" for those of us who think in English measures). The newly crowned Miss Mexico, Elisa Najera, is a six footer. [See pictures]

Well, maybe all countries have their height requirements. After all, nowadays they like tall models.

However, in the case of Mexico, that effectively discriminates against indigenous women who are, on average, shorter than Euro-Mexican women. (In pre-Hispanic Mexico, there was even a height difference among the indigenous—the Indians of northern Mexico were taller than those of the south.)

Looking at the list of the winners and runners-up of Nuestra Belleza since 1995, with one exception, only one is from a state with an indigenous majority. They are almost all from central and northern Mexico, several being from border states. (According to the Mexican Genome Project, the border state of Sonora is 58% European).

I don’t mean to suggest, by the way, that this sort of Eurocentric beauty contest business is unique to Mexico. Oh no. As I pointed out in an article several years back, it’s all over Latin America.

For a recent example, see the contestants in the Reina Hispanoamericana (Hispano-American Queen) pageant scheduled to begin today (October 12th).

So Mexican beauty pageants definitely favor the white end of the Mexican racial spectrum. What’s the point?

Am I telling Mexicans and other Latin Americans how to run their own beauty pageants?

Perish the thought. They can do what they want.

They just need to quit calling us racist.
REAL Veracruzano   Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:05 pm GMT
wow, that was a big comment mate, unfortunately I couldn't distinguish when you were quoting and when you were answering.

BTW are you the real mexican or did someone use your name too?
Mexican   Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:05 pm GMT
I didn't write the message above, I do agree with your comment Mexican, all those illegal aliens are from the lowest of the low, that's why they have completly Amerindian features, it's just the true, as I said before although we're all Meztizos these are the real percentages.

The impostor must have been an Anglo spammer, one Anglo-Saxon troll no doubt about that. I must have suspected.
Sorry for the message above REAL Veracruzano.
REAL Veracruzano   Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:11 pm GMT
Okay, BTW you can quote other people's messages by putting them within <<these marks>> so it'll be easier to read, adios.
guest   Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:17 am GMT
Elbart, if you choose to continue judging at people based upon their skin color, no one can stop you.
You're the one who is harming yourself there, because by holding on to such view, not only do you see the indigenous looking Mexicans as the low ones (as you expressed it: "lowest of the low"), but you automatically also put yourself under someone else who is whiter or more European than you, or who speaks better Spanish than you (in your definition the Spaniards). Although in reality you're a human being just like the Europeans are, and the truth is you're not less worthy than they are.

Saludos humanos
K. T.   Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:30 am GMT
"Although in reality you're a human being just like the Europeans are, and the truth is you're not less worthy than they are."

That's right.
Guest   Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:39 am GMT
<<That's right.>>

The Lord hast spoken!
K. T.   Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:42 am GMT
I'm not "the Lord", but it wouldn't surprise me if you were JLK or Colette (who holds grudges forever over nothing, imo.)
Jarocho.   Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:47 am GMT
<<You're the one who is harming yourself there, because by holding on to such view, not only do you see the indigenous looking Mexicans as the low ones (as you expressed it: "lowest of the low")..

Saying that the illegal aliens come from the lowest is not being racist, is the truth otherwise they wouldn't go, the rest of Mexicans couldn't care less what happens in the U.S.

<<but you automatically also put yourself under someone else who is whiter or more European than you>>

lol, okay man I consider myself Mestizo like all Mexicans, but as I said before it is not a physical description, and not that I care but just so you know I could pass by German so I don't really know were you got that "complex" thing.

<<or who speaks better Spanish than you (in your definition the Spaniards). Although in reality you're a human being just like the Europeans are, and the truth is you're not less worthy than they are.>>

Again, who said that they speak better than us? we pronounce all letters, you obviously haven't heard an Andaluz speak.
Guest   Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:48 am GMT
<<who holds grudges forever over nothing, imo.>>

Аlas, have pity on us sinners. Let those in favour with God pray for those who succumb to temptation, so we need not roam forever in purgatory.
K. T.   Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:51 am GMT
Not more of that, please.
Guest   Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:57 am GMT
I feel I am going to be a long time wandering the desolate no man's land of purgatory. Burning eternal pain coursing through my veins and tearing at my tattered skin. Ach! 'Tis a dark day for the sinners! Ai! Let the rain fall and the one ring to rule them all , fall , and thrall on the 'morrow! Forsaken I am, yet forsaken I mayn't be on the 'morrow! Ach, let's take it from the beginning again, repeat after me my uncle...