By that "common" and "restaurant" must be "educated words" because it has a French etymology. < By that logic...because they have...
queue, line, row
<<I'm afraid this bizarre argument lost me completely. I assure you that 'queue' is emphatically NOT an 'educated' word in the UK, but the normal, everyday word.>>
Of course - you can't argue that a word must be formal just by saying "It's French!" That must be some sort of logical fallacy. ;-)
I can attest just from the secondhand experience of watching British TV shows that "queue" seems to be the only term used in the UK.
(And don't mind Brennus - he's a pretentious moron who knows diddly squat about linguistics. Remember, he says that the only three dialects of English are Queen's, Cockney, and Scots.)
Of course - you can't argue that a word must be formal just by saying "It's French!" That must be some sort of logical fallacy. ;-)
I can attest just from the secondhand experience of watching British TV shows that "queue" seems to be the only term used in the UK.
(And don't mind Brennus - he's a pretentious moron who knows diddly squat about linguistics. Remember, he says that the only three dialects of English are Queen's, Cockney, and Scots.)
We know how to say "queue", Dude. We also know how to say "pretentious dickhead".
<<And from where do you get that idea?>>
From the fact that I am American and the vast majority of the people I know have never seen the word, let alone heard it spoken aloud (or at least noticed it being said). Heck, I've never heard it said except in British films and television. That and the fact that its pronunciation is not very phonetic leads me to believe what I have stated.
From the fact that I am American and the vast majority of the people I know have never seen the word, let alone heard it spoken aloud (or at least noticed it being said). Heck, I've never heard it said except in British films and television. That and the fact that its pronunciation is not very phonetic leads me to believe what I have stated.
Agree with Dude Who Knows Here." According to Dictionary.com the modern British usage of 'queue ' dates only from about 1837. This was sometime after the American Revolution so it's not surprising that the word is nearly absent in American English. It appears to be a loan from the French 'Faire la queue.'
Candy and Lazar, both you seem to know little about history or historical linguistics , even English history, and I think that Lazar has got a lot more problems than that. However it's your life Lazar and you are the one who's going to have to live it.
Candy and Lazar, both you seem to know little about history or historical linguistics , even English history, and I think that Lazar has got a lot more problems than that. However it's your life Lazar and you are the one who's going to have to live it.
Let me get this straight, Brennus: You have an actual Brit, Candy, telling me how common the word "queue" is in her dialect. You have an actual American, me, telling you that I may not have many occasions to say it, but I indeed know how. And we're the ones who are wrong?
>>Agree with Dude Who Knows Here." According to Dictionary.com the modern British usage of 'queue ' dates only from about 1837. This was sometime after the American Revolution so it's not surprising that the word is nearly absent in American English. It appears to be a loan from the French 'Faire la queue.'<<
Well, I am definitely an NAE-speaker, and yet I am quite familiar with the word "queue" (/kju/ -> [kj_0u]), both as a noun and as a verb, even though I myself use it in a very different fashion from that being spoken of here, as to me a "queue" is a type of datastructure, and "to queue" something is to add it to such a datastructure.
>>Candy and Lazar, both you seem to know little about history or historical linguistics , even English history, and I think that Lazar has got a lot more problems than that. However it's your life Lazar and you are the one who's going to have to live it. <<
Like we should take what you say seriously when it comes to linguistic matters, especially when we have actual native speakers of the dialects in question here who directly contradict whatever notions you may happen to believe.
Well, I am definitely an NAE-speaker, and yet I am quite familiar with the word "queue" (/kju/ -> [kj_0u]), both as a noun and as a verb, even though I myself use it in a very different fashion from that being spoken of here, as to me a "queue" is a type of datastructure, and "to queue" something is to add it to such a datastructure.
>>Candy and Lazar, both you seem to know little about history or historical linguistics , even English history, and I think that Lazar has got a lot more problems than that. However it's your life Lazar and you are the one who's going to have to live it. <<
Like we should take what you say seriously when it comes to linguistic matters, especially when we have actual native speakers of the dialects in question here who directly contradict whatever notions you may happen to believe.
<<From the fact that I am American and the vast majority of the people I know have never seen the word, let alone heard it spoken aloud (or at least noticed it being said). Heck, I've never heard it said except in British films and television. That and the fact that its pronunciation is not very phonetic leads me to believe what I have stated. >>
Well, I've never said "blimey" or "bloke" but I know how they're said.
It's not like Americans get absolutely no exposure to British or other forms of English. We get plenty.
A lot of English words aren't very phonetic. "Queue" isn't the worst of the lot.
Well, I've never said "blimey" or "bloke" but I know how they're said.
It's not like Americans get absolutely no exposure to British or other forms of English. We get plenty.
A lot of English words aren't very phonetic. "Queue" isn't the worst of the lot.
<<Candy and Lazar, both you seem to know little about history or historical linguistics , even English history, and I think that Lazar has got a lot more problems than that.>>
You're the one that says that the only three dialects of English are Scots, Cockney and Queen's (!), and *I'm* the one that doesn't know about linguistics? You're the one who sees no essential difference between Francophone influence in England versus Germany and Russia, and *I'm* the one who doesn't know about English history? And now, based solely on your own flawed intuition, you pig-headedly dispute the frequency of a dialectal term with a native speaker of that very dialect.
<<However it's your life Lazar and you are the one who's going to have to live it.>>
What does that even mean? I'm proud of my life, and I'm proud that I won't spend it spouting ridiculous, uninformed nonsense like you.
You're the one that says that the only three dialects of English are Scots, Cockney and Queen's (!), and *I'm* the one that doesn't know about linguistics? You're the one who sees no essential difference between Francophone influence in England versus Germany and Russia, and *I'm* the one who doesn't know about English history? And now, based solely on your own flawed intuition, you pig-headedly dispute the frequency of a dialectal term with a native speaker of that very dialect.
<<However it's your life Lazar and you are the one who's going to have to live it.>>
What does that even mean? I'm proud of my life, and I'm proud that I won't spend it spouting ridiculous, uninformed nonsense like you.
<<Well, I've never said "blimey" or "bloke" but I know how they're said.>>
Those two words are phonetic. Forgetting for a second that they are words long-associated with the British by Americans, one must also take into account that they would stand out more to the average American when spoken aloud ("queue" has at least one homophone that comes to mind).
<<It's not like Americans get absolutely no exposure to British or other forms of English. We get plenty.>>
This is just a guess, but I would venture to say that the average Briton is much more exposed to American media than vice versa. How many Brits have heard of 'Friends'? Do think it that number even compares to the number of Americans who have heard of, say, 'The Office' (the original British series, of course)? Besides, as I stated, the only times I've personally heard the world spoken aloud was in British media, so that fact that some Americans (like me) do watch British media was not debated.
<<A lot of English words aren't very phonetic. "Queue" isn't the worst of the lot. >>
Don't miss the point. While the pronunciation of "queue" may not be the most difficult to determine of all the words in the English language, that doesn't take away from the simple fact that the word is not phonetic. If one had never heard the word spoken aloud, it's doubtful that they would be able to deduce its pronunciation.
Those two words are phonetic. Forgetting for a second that they are words long-associated with the British by Americans, one must also take into account that they would stand out more to the average American when spoken aloud ("queue" has at least one homophone that comes to mind).
<<It's not like Americans get absolutely no exposure to British or other forms of English. We get plenty.>>
This is just a guess, but I would venture to say that the average Briton is much more exposed to American media than vice versa. How many Brits have heard of 'Friends'? Do think it that number even compares to the number of Americans who have heard of, say, 'The Office' (the original British series, of course)? Besides, as I stated, the only times I've personally heard the world spoken aloud was in British media, so that fact that some Americans (like me) do watch British media was not debated.
<<A lot of English words aren't very phonetic. "Queue" isn't the worst of the lot. >>
Don't miss the point. While the pronunciation of "queue" may not be the most difficult to determine of all the words in the English language, that doesn't take away from the simple fact that the word is not phonetic. If one had never heard the word spoken aloud, it's doubtful that they would be able to deduce its pronunciation.
The point is, we've all heard the word "queue". It's not some mystery word from out of the blue. We've heard it, and we know how to say it.
<<Candy and Lazar, both you seem to know little about history or historical linguistics , even English history, and I think that Lazar has got a lot more problems than that.
Candy and Lazar are doing just fine, Brennus.
<<However it's your life Lazar and you are the one who's going to have to live it.>>
I'm sorry, I just had to chuckle at that one--how is that relevant at all to his supposed lack of knowledge in historical linguistics (which isn't true, by the way)?
<<But the word is French which has never been the language of the common people in England or anywhere else in non-Francophone Europe.>>
You're saying that it's impossible that any French words could have penetrated vernacular English? What complete nonsense! By that "common" and "restaurant" must be "educated words" because it has a French etymology.
And were you aware that the word "line" is also of French origin?
<<Otherwise, Frederick the Great and Czar Alexander I might have succeeded in making it official in Germany and Russia.>>
And at what point were Germany and Russia conquered by a French-speaking aristocracy? If you can't recognize an essential difference between Francophone influence in England versus Germany and Russia, then your knowledge of history must be pitiful.
Candy and Lazar are doing just fine, Brennus.
<<However it's your life Lazar and you are the one who's going to have to live it.>>
I'm sorry, I just had to chuckle at that one--how is that relevant at all to his supposed lack of knowledge in historical linguistics (which isn't true, by the way)?
<<But the word is French which has never been the language of the common people in England or anywhere else in non-Francophone Europe.>>
You're saying that it's impossible that any French words could have penetrated vernacular English? What complete nonsense! By that "common" and "restaurant" must be "educated words" because it has a French etymology.
And were you aware that the word "line" is also of French origin?
<<Otherwise, Frederick the Great and Czar Alexander I might have succeeded in making it official in Germany and Russia.>>
And at what point were Germany and Russia conquered by a French-speaking aristocracy? If you can't recognize an essential difference between Francophone influence in England versus Germany and Russia, then your knowledge of history must be pitiful.
Oops I accidentally hit send above and that was me. Ignore the bottom part. I was copying and pasting and was going to respond to those comments, which I'll do here.
<<But the word is French which has never been the language of the common people in England or anywhere else in non-Francophone Europe.>>
Brennus, you're betraying a deep lack of understanding of historical linguistics here. Tons of words in English that are very common have come from French. Your point is irrelevant.
<<And were you aware that the word "line" is also of French origin?>>
Of course Brennus won't directly respond to comments or facts that are irrefutable so he'll surely overlook that one.
<<Otherwise, Frederick the Great and Czar Alexander I might have succeeded in making it official in Germany and Russia.>>
Brennus, your grasp of history as related to language, and language in general, is laughable. This would be quite excusable if you were truly trying to learn but since you feign authority on things you clearly know little actual information about, your attempts always betray an underlying stubborn ignorance. Please stop trying (poorly, if still irritatingly) to discredit those who would use their native intuition/experience and/or solid linguistic information with your nonsensical tosh.
<<But the word is French which has never been the language of the common people in England or anywhere else in non-Francophone Europe.>>
Brennus, you're betraying a deep lack of understanding of historical linguistics here. Tons of words in English that are very common have come from French. Your point is irrelevant.
<<And were you aware that the word "line" is also of French origin?>>
Of course Brennus won't directly respond to comments or facts that are irrefutable so he'll surely overlook that one.
<<Otherwise, Frederick the Great and Czar Alexander I might have succeeded in making it official in Germany and Russia.>>
Brennus, your grasp of history as related to language, and language in general, is laughable. This would be quite excusable if you were truly trying to learn but since you feign authority on things you clearly know little actual information about, your attempts always betray an underlying stubborn ignorance. Please stop trying (poorly, if still irritatingly) to discredit those who would use their native intuition/experience and/or solid linguistic information with your nonsensical tosh.