Are there any linguists among Antimooners?

Guest   Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:30 am GMT
Are there any linguists among Antimooners?
Real linguist in a serious sense of the word
Iain   Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:59 am GMT
Which 'serious sense of the word' are you referring to?
Skippy   Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:56 am GMT
I have a Bachelor's in it... But it's far from my career.
Ed   Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:19 am GMT
Skippy, what is your career?
K. T.   Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:43 pm GMT
When I hear that someone has a degree in linguistics, I always ask for more details because (as Brennus noted), a degree doesn't mean the person can speak another language.

The word "linguist" seems to have at least three meanings.

Linguist (degree in linguistics)
Linguist (Steve Kaufmann's meaning/common use by many people for multilingual people)
Linguist (military specialist meaning)

Neither people who have a degree in linguistics nor military linguists (I think) have to be fluent in another language. They know about a second language and may even use it, but fluency isn't always there.

I like the word "polyglot" even though it sounds "ugly" in English (and even in Spanish, imo) for multilingual people. Of course, for some famous people people who were experts in linguistics and were multilingual as well, the label "linguist" works.
Skippy   Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:46 pm GMT
I'm getting a Master's in political science and intend to study constitutional law upon graduation... So right now my career is... student... lol :-)
K. T.   Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:03 pm GMT
Skippy,

Did you ever decide on a language? I thought that you were going to trek across Eastern Europe.
Arnold   Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:54 pm GMT
Most of this is mythology. Nobody has ever proved a physiological change in the brain that makes language learning different (or more difficult) for adults than for children; and there are many alternate explanations for the observed differences that linguists stubbornly refuse to consider. This is unfortunate, because the myth that "adults can never learn a language as well as children" is very widespread, even though it is baseless. The myth discourages many adult learners from even trying, since they assume that it's impossible for them to ever attain native proficiency. But it's not impossible at all. It's just not easy.
Guest   Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:24 am GMT
The above posting was obviously put in the wrong thread.
guest2   Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:37 am GMT
@ K. T.:

I agree that ''polyglot'' sounds ugly, in English as well as in my mother tounge, German.

I wouldn't agree that the term ''linguist'' is used for multilinual people, at least it is not in German. This term sounds rather ''educated'', rather ''university-like'', it implies that the person it referes to has a university degree, maybe because of the ending -ist as in scientist.

There is the term ''bilinuals'' I came across in a song of a group called ''Buggles''. (Very good music, BTW.) So, wouldn't ''multilingual'' be a much better term?

@ Brennus:

<<They tend to take too much of a 'social science' approach to studying and talking about language. I've always viewed the study of language as more a 'humanities' subject instead like English, Art, Music or History. >>

I agree with you!

It's annoying when they are more bothered with social aspects of the society their ''informants'' live in that with the actual language. I'm interested in language, not so much in social thingies.
Xie   Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:46 pm GMT
>>They also tend to scorn people who don't have degrees in linguistics. While there is certainly much to be said about having a degree in linguistics, the lack of one does not necessarily handicap someone from being able to talk about the subject.

What's more, few linguists I'm told, are actually multilingual and speak a foreign language. They merely study facts about languages instead. Yet, there are some insights to be gained in languages which I think can only come from attempting to learn another language.<<

Indeed, I was turned off precisely because linguistics, to put it very simply, isn't promising at all in my country. If I want to teach, I could have taken an education degree (but with which I _still_ would have to learn some linguistics formally). And I also think far too many topics just won't suit me. No university here offers applied linguistics. There are just three linguistics programs here, and none really focus on anything concrete... (Cantonese doesn't interest me, either). Personally, that's just hair-splitting, period.

For one thing, I think, very superficially, that linguistics (NOT applied linguistics) has been so theoretical that... I think I just don't have the interest, and thus the brain, to understand the bulk of theories of those who .... eh... just seem so much like trying to create theories and quarrel all the time for the fun of it. I'm MUCH more into educational issues (like Krashen) and, precisely as Prof. AA suggests, historical linguistics. This gets very personal... so if you wanna know, I can tell more as a would-have-been student.

For another, interestingly, linguistics has still been misunderstood as a multilingual degree here. Precisely, the program that the CUHK offers does require students (they only accept more than a dozen of them each year, and it's very new) to learn a THIRD language, like French or German. What do you think?

I think, somehow...., at least I think the education system here lacks one thing (hopefully, not in the future), namely that students rarely/hardly know what is being taught at universities. I have been glad to have studied a bit of linguistics before, so that I can speak of the pros and cons of studying it as an undergrad. (without being accused of not knowing anything at all), thanks to the liberty I was granted. Having that said, the term linguist/polyglot, etc, is still problematic in English. Linguistics, IMNVHO, is quite un-doable in Hong Kong unless I do local Cantonese - every university has good research in local topics, don't they. That's just my very superficial opinion, of coz. But as a piece of advice, as if I were your close friend, I do think, regardless of background, undergraduate prog. are to be, in general, considered very very carefully.
K. T.   Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:47 pm GMT
"I wouldn't agree that the term ''linguist'' is used for multilinual people, at least it is not in German. This term sounds rather ''educated'', rather ''university-like'', it implies that the person it referes to has a university degree, maybe because of the ending -ist as in scientist.

There is the term ''bilinuals'' I came across in a song of a group called ''Buggles''. (Very good music, BTW.) So, wouldn't ''multilingual'' be a much better term?"-guest2

I agree with your disagreement over the term "linguist" and that's why I don't use it. I don't want people to think that I have professional qualifications as a linguist. I can pass a test and be an interpreter, but I won't call myself a linguist. On the other hand, it is perfectly acceptable to use the word "linguist" to mean a multilingual person or a polyglot in English and that's how Steve Kaufmann "The Linguist" uses it.

What's the most neutral word to use in German to describe a multilingual person? Thanks.
K. T.   Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:53 pm GMT
"I agree with you!

It's annoying when they are more bothered with social aspects of the society their ''informants'' live in that with the actual language. I'm interested in language, not so much in social thingies." guest2 to Brennus


I don't mind if linguists study languages in detail, but yes, it's strange to me that some linguists aren't fluent in at least one foreign language. I met a girl who knew all about aspects of French, but who couldn't speak the language! I suppose it would be okay if such a person was planning to be a speech therapist working with an immigrant population whose first language was French, but...
Xie   Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:27 am GMT
That's why I don't care for the subject in general. Of course, I'm mistaken too, because ... by definition this subject isn't about polyglottery. In this age of absolute definitions, when you say "linguistics", you don't have to be multilingual; by the same token, when you say "moral" and "law", you don't even have to be very moral at all, as long as everything you do is legal (or, in the worst case, SEEMS legal).

It should reflect pretty much why AA thought of the dumbing-down theory. Historical linguistics --> "frowned on" --> then some guys like Saussure appeared --> heavy focus on Chomsky and some others --> ... you still won't get to study multiple languages, by definition. This is a very bad generalization, but you may understand what I mean.

To put it simply, it's also like English studies. You won't become fluent by studying it, but it DOES give you some insights into literature and linguistics. In general, I do think my English is better than before, but this is entirely my own effort, rather than what a university actually could offer.
Skippy   Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:58 am GMT
lol I do intend to trek across Eastern Europe, unfortunately it's going to be a while for lack of funding. Just as soon as I get caught up with my studies I'm going to start learning Croatian. Also, I have a friend of a friend who speaks Czech so I may call him up for a lesson or two.

I have too many language interests. I just can't focus.