Grammar is an abstraction. Grammar does not exist, but only real language used by people. Native English speakers always speak correctly.
Does English need a grammar wake up call?
<<And sentences like "She is better than me" or "Who did you see?" happen to be perfect grammar for most people.>>
Happen to be perfect grammar, or happen to be accepted grammar? There's a difference. (--and yes, I use these phrases all the time, but I also know what it *should* be if I were writing a paper ;)
<<<"me" as object makes no logical sense in this phrase as it is not the object of any verb (takes no action) nor is oblique in sense.>
"Me" is the object of "than". Is "than" not a preposition? So how is this not oblique? "Me" is not the subject of anything, verb or otherwise. It is the recipient of the action. Therefore, the most logical choice is to consider it to be an object. >>
"Than" is not a preposition in this instance: it is a conjunction. "Than" as a preposition is not standard--which is the whole purpose of this thread ;-)
<<<We say "The woman is better than the man"--both 'The woman' and 'the man' are nominative.>
"Nominative" is one of those linguistic words that make sense only when discussing foreign languages. English does not have a separate category of "nominative". Objective or subjective are the only cases that pronouns have. >>
Nominative = Subjective; Subjective = Nominative
They are the same thing, even in English. English cannot be differentiated from any other language linguistically, foreign or otherwise, nor have its own terms. Subjects of sentences are always in the Nominative case.
<<<Correctly, it should be "I talked to her that answered the phone.">
Uh...no. "Her" is the subject of "answered". Therefore, the subjective pronoun is called for.>>
You are again incorrect. The subject of the clause ..."that answered the phone" is the relative pronoun 'that', not 'her'.
Happen to be perfect grammar, or happen to be accepted grammar? There's a difference. (--and yes, I use these phrases all the time, but I also know what it *should* be if I were writing a paper ;)
<<<"me" as object makes no logical sense in this phrase as it is not the object of any verb (takes no action) nor is oblique in sense.>
"Me" is the object of "than". Is "than" not a preposition? So how is this not oblique? "Me" is not the subject of anything, verb or otherwise. It is the recipient of the action. Therefore, the most logical choice is to consider it to be an object. >>
"Than" is not a preposition in this instance: it is a conjunction. "Than" as a preposition is not standard--which is the whole purpose of this thread ;-)
<<<We say "The woman is better than the man"--both 'The woman' and 'the man' are nominative.>
"Nominative" is one of those linguistic words that make sense only when discussing foreign languages. English does not have a separate category of "nominative". Objective or subjective are the only cases that pronouns have. >>
Nominative = Subjective; Subjective = Nominative
They are the same thing, even in English. English cannot be differentiated from any other language linguistically, foreign or otherwise, nor have its own terms. Subjects of sentences are always in the Nominative case.
<<<Correctly, it should be "I talked to her that answered the phone.">
Uh...no. "Her" is the subject of "answered". Therefore, the subjective pronoun is called for.>>
You are again incorrect. The subject of the clause ..."that answered the phone" is the relative pronoun 'that', not 'her'.
You cannot expect of Americans to write a formal paper. They only master their slangy speech.
@ Another Guest
What is the difference between "She looks better than he" and "She looks better than he thinks"?
What is the difference between "She looks better than he" and "She looks better than he thinks"?
<<You cannot expect of Americans to write a formal paper. They only master their slangy speech. >>
I am American--through and through :)
I am American--through and through :)
<<You cannot expect of Americans to write a formal paper. They only master their slangy speech. >>
Heh! Good one. I guess the majority of state-of-the-art technology and ground-breaking scientific discoveries are written about in 'slangy speech'. Oh well, it doesn't affect the quality in the end does it, but it must annoy the British scientists reading it.
Heh! Good one. I guess the majority of state-of-the-art technology and ground-breaking scientific discoveries are written about in 'slangy speech'. Oh well, it doesn't affect the quality in the end does it, but it must annoy the British scientists reading it.
-Heh! Good one. I guess the majority of state-of-the-art technology and ground-breaking scientific discoveries are written about in 'slangy speech'.-
USA is importing doctors and web designers from India (12% of all doctors in the US are Indians) and that explains everything. Americans are not into studying.
USA is importing doctors and web designers from India (12% of all doctors in the US are Indians) and that explains everything. Americans are not into studying.
Ithink the bestway toimprove English wouldbe tomakeit an agglutinativelanguage, as a kind ofimpersonation ofromancelanguages and ofsyntheticlanguages at the sametime. Don't youthink that wouldhelp English tobe accepted as a language with morecomplexgrammar? People wouldstop saying that Englishgrammar is too simple.
I don't understand, but when Americans learn let's say French or Spanish, they always want to ''learn the proper language, not the street lingo''. Why is correctness so important when you learn a foreign language?
<<I don't understand, but when Americans learn let's say French or Spanish, they always want to ''learn the proper language, not the street lingo''. Why is correctness so important when you learn a foreign language? >>
Because there is a difference between correctness in terms of native speakers and correctness in terms of non-natives. The proper language leads to the street lingo and not the other way around. It would be ridiculous to see someone attempting to speak in street lingo if they couldn't even string a basic sentence together.
Because there is a difference between correctness in terms of native speakers and correctness in terms of non-natives. The proper language leads to the street lingo and not the other way around. It would be ridiculous to see someone attempting to speak in street lingo if they couldn't even string a basic sentence together.
<I am American--through and through :) >
That's probably why your grammar is so poor.
That's probably why your grammar is so poor.
<It would be ridiculous to see someone attempting to speak in street lingo if they couldn't even string a basic sentence together. >
Are you saying that sentences in street lingo are different to those in what you call "proper language"? If so, how are they different.
And don't native speakers learn "street lingo" before they begin learning proper language?
And let it be known that most of the develpoments in proper language have come out of street lingo.
Are you saying that sentences in street lingo are different to those in what you call "proper language"? If so, how are they different.
And don't native speakers learn "street lingo" before they begin learning proper language?
And let it be known that most of the develpoments in proper language have come out of street lingo.
<<<I am American--through and through :) >
That's probably why your grammar is so poor. >>
Really now...
That's probably why your grammar is so poor. >>
Really now...
Leasnam,
I see you as a sexualluy frustrated rainy ugly British island inhabitant without enough money to go this summer to Málaga. So you vomit your frustrations here. ¡Andate a la puta que te pario¡Chinga tu madre! And fuck you, Lady Dianna, King George III, your bitch queen, pompous attitude, uuuuuuugly accent . Superior?? Your little piece of shit dank rainy island breeds only now assholes like you. That's your biggest export. Own it!
I see you as a sexualluy frustrated rainy ugly British island inhabitant without enough money to go this summer to Málaga. So you vomit your frustrations here. ¡Andate a la puta que te pario¡Chinga tu madre! And fuck you, Lady Dianna, King George III, your bitch queen, pompous attitude, uuuuuuugly accent . Superior?? Your little piece of shit dank rainy island breeds only now assholes like you. That's your biggest export. Own it!