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Spanish is not so important as latin-americans praise!
I state this as one very proud Italian, France is a beatiful Roman colonie. As a person who live in the United states, Spanish is diffentally the option here. Trust me I'd rather it be Italian, but things or the way they are. So in the long term if the US second language becomes Spanish, it would only be naturall for the rest of world follows. Do you think it would be easier for Germany, Italy,and France to teach their childern english or spanish? I know at least two of them it would spanish.
But my quistion is why not revert back to Latin? I think every one could deal with that. I don't think people's pride would get involved. Cause in the US there are alot of people who get offended by the fact that spanish is becoming a second language.
If you think about it that would be kind of cool. Every one speaking latin!
Frontera : tu parles une langue néolatine ?
Frontera,
actually that's becoming an REALITY in some parts of Los Angeles and in other places (california, u.s.a) They're teaching LATIN to people of Hispanic-background (at an early age) because, they'll benefit from it tremendously in the future and make learning easier & fun. Also,
they'll be more competent in English grammar/vocabulary and excel in Spanish fluency and LATIN would be the reference guide for both languages.
http://www.promotelatin.org/latin.htm
Raul, thanks. Spain is beautiful. As well as Italy.
I also forgot to mentioned, it'll be for everyone. But CENTERED or FOCUSED more on people of Hispanic-origin (people having Spanish or any other language as an first language).Respectively.
Raúl:
Estoy de acuerdo en lo que mencionas sobre la colonización Española en América; es verdad que si existen indígenas hasta el dia de hoy en los "paises hijos de España en América" es gracias a que vuestra colonización fue mas humana que la de otros pueblos europeos, a pesar de los matanzas y demás actos bélicos que normalmente acontecen en toda guerra, basta con ver a los Ingleses y la forma en la cual erradicaron todo rastro de cultura indígena en sus colonias.
Nosotros (bueno no puedo hablar por todo Hispanoámerica, pero al menos puedo hacerlo por México en este caso específico), no nos avergonzamos de nuestra herancia Española, al contrario estamos bastante concientes de que si existimos (desde un punto de vista como nación) es gracias a vosotros, que existan por ahí uno que otro hispanoaméricano renegado no quiere decir que todos seamos asi.
De ninguna manera pensamos que Estados Unidos nos quiere mas que vostros, sino puedes ver nuestra historia aquí en México, esta es la hora que no le perdonamos que nos haya robado la mitad de nuestro territorio.
Y si tenemos cosas particulares de nosotros que no son de origen Español, pero a la hora de hacer un balance de las cosas desde un punto de vista cultural; tenemos mucha mas cultura Hispana que Indígena, ¿Por qué? ¿cuál es el idioma que ocupamos en la vida diaria? Español (si bien no es Castellano original, no deja de ser Castellano) no usamos no maya, ni mixteco ni ningun otro idioma indígena para la adminstración del país, nuestras leyes estan basadas y provienen de los tiempos de la colonia Española, un buen ejemplo es que cuando Texas un punto importante para que estallara la guerra fue la diferencia entre la justicia Española (MEX) y la justicia Inglesa (USA) entre los habitantes de ese territorio, otro punto fue las diferencias entre la religión (Católica-Española) vs (Protestante Inglesa), en aquellos tiempos México ya estaba consolidado como país independiente, pero seguia siendo utilizando exactamente la forma de adminstración que había tenido cuando había sido la Nueva España (y hasta la fecha las cosas no han cambiado mucho) por la simple y sencilla razón (y dejando de lado nacionalismos baratos ) de que a proviene de España.
Es cierto tenemos un pasado Indígena muy rico, y aún existe población India o mestizos en el país con sus respectivas culturas, además de diversas tradiciones y costumbres típicas pero en general el Castellano y la cultura Española se han sobrepuesto a todo esto. Si bien es verdad que no somos de ninguna manera un copia idéntica de España por los diversos factores étnicos, culturales e históricos, tenemos mucha de la misma, y como una hija no es una copia de su madre y ambas tienen sus respectivas diferencias es innegable que comparten la misma sangre.
Y nadie aqui se avergüenza de su herencia Española salvo quizá alguno que otro Indígena renegado que añora tiempos pasados o algun contreras que no sabe mas que renegar y quejarse.
I would like to ask a question to the moderators of this forum. I know there are rules here, but can you explain me why in some ocasions people can post messages in languages other than english (spanish, french, etc) and entire threads are deleated when they are writen in, say, portuguese? Yesterday I had found a thread, with several pages, in portuguese (the initial title, at least) but because I was doing other things at the time, I hadn't the time to check it out. Then it disapeared.
Is it the language you don't like or the message? Can I post in other languages other than english? I often see messages in spanish and french. Can I post in those languages too? What about portuguese?
Thank you, I'm really confused.
<<the Spaniards transplanted their languange, religion, and culture over a vast geographic area.>>
It’s interesting because some Spaniards are adamant that Latin America does not resemble Spain culturally in the slightest and yet they’re proud that they TRANSPLANTED their culture and language. It’s confusing to say the least; you can’t have it both ways. Hundreds of languages and cultural may have given way to a predominant European one but that is not cause for celebration. The world is poorer for it, not richer. It should be a day of national shame. However there are still traces of Native Americans cultural traits. It was a fusion of sorts, with the European the dominant culture.
<<try reseaching the archives of Seville and you will find that the arguments of a "just conquest" of the indies of New Spain (America) are the prelude to modern human rights.>>
There is no such thing as a “just conquest”. If so why were the conquering Moors expelled after 800 years of ruling Spain? After all they brought their knowledge with them and civilized the Iberians and the only thanks they got was to be violently forced out of the land they conquered. Should Spain surrender its sovereignty if France decided to attack it? Only a bigot would believe there is justification for an illegal invasion of a territory and its people that inhabit it that poses no threat to them. It reminds a little bit of what’s happening now.
<<in all reality these cultures were such that they routinely sacrificed thousands of people in their rituals, performed canniballism on a large scale, >>
<<With all due respect, these civilizations were NOT civil as one might be led to believe. It is true that in one week it was not uncommon for twenty-thousand indians be sacrifised by the Aztecs in accordance with their rituals to the gods. How does this fit in with that profesiezed mythical idea of the "true and noble" Indian?>>
More uninformed bigoted lies:
http://www.mexika.org/Sacrifice.html
<,As a justification for their destructive acts, the conquistadors generated propaganda designed to offend the sensibilities of their Christian audience: They described the Aztec practice of human sacrifice.>>
<<After careful and systematic study of the sources, I find no sign of evidence of institutionalized mass human sacrifice among the Aztecs. The phenomenon to be studied, therefore, may be not these supposed sacrifices but the deeply rooted belief that they occurred.>>
<<and knew not yet of the wheel or its use.>>
Again, if you got past your Eurocentric view of the world you would already know that there is ample evidence that Native Americans had in fact invented the wheel but there were no domesticated animals that could be easily be used for labour and therefore the use of the of the wheel was restricted to ornaments.
<<Thanks for the support. Having grown up in the US, I guess I'm just tired of the same retoricá and ignorance. >>
As a Spaniard you do not have a neutral view on this issue. You deliberately try to argue that everything involving Spain was justified or less gruesome than what others did because you feel compelled to defend the honour of your ancestors and their "acheivements". Thus you are compromised and can not offer an objective opinion or one that can be taken seriously. If you ask Latin Americans they would say the exact same thing and label your ranting and raving as baseless biased rhetoric and ignorance. Depends on which side of the fence you're sitting on.
South America,Europe, the whole world laugh at the north americans for thinking that hispanics are a race or just indian people.Hey americans,there are white, asian and black hispanics.We dont call an asian or black american,anglosaxon.Is that too hard to comprehend. Are you just taught about America's history?Until you dont spread this around people will keep on calling americans ignorant and rightfully so.Learn to differentiate fellas.
The yanks will catch on somday
Ruben, actually the US gov't does noy look at Hispanics as another race. I can tell you this for a fact. I'm mortgage banker, and on our HUDs the gov't ask in a seperate colum if you are Hispanic and in another your race. Now there may be ppl who look at Hispanics as differnt race but thats not every on in the country. If you think that every one here does, than ask you who is being ignorant.
The big error on your part is you forget who live here. Have you ever looked what ethnicties live here? The 3rd largest population here is of Italian. We are wear of our relation to our Hispanic brothers. And trust me if it came down to it we would have their back.
Greg, am guessing here, but did you post somthing about me speaking one language? Can we try that in english? Sorry again I wish i could read your post.
For "professor" Tim
Fr. José de Acosta, S.J.: “The Procuranda Indorum Salute, Pacificación y Colonización.” Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas, (CSIC) Madrid 1984
Lewis Hanke: “The Spanish Struggle for Justice in the Conquest of America.” University of Philadelphia Press, 1949.
Institute of Hispanic Culture: “A Hispanic Look at the Bicentennial,”
Most Rev. Francis C. Kelly: “Blood Drenched Altars,” TAN Books, 1935, Rockford, IL.
José Ignacio Lasaga: “Vidas Cubanas” volume I, Editorial Revista Ideal, II volumes Miami, 1984. Edición bilingüe.
Bartolomé de Las Casas: “De Regia Potestae”, CSIC, Madrid 1984
Salvador de Madariaga: “The Rise of the Spanish American Empire.” The Free Press, N.Y. 1947
Philip Wayne Powell: “The Tree of Hate.” Books, Vallecito, CA, 1985
William H. Prescott: “The Reign of Ferdinand and Isabella the Catholic.” Hooper Clarke, Chicago
“Francisco de Vitoria y la Escuela de Salamanca”, CSIC, Madrid, 1984
William T. Walsh: “Isabella of Spain”, TAN Books, Rockford, Illinois
Tim,
According to Dr. Powell, “the American students find it disconcerting when they learn that in the Spanish American lands of Catholicism and Inquisition, a sophisticated European culture flourished, almost from the moment of the Conquest itself. This included everything from complex municipal and regional government, vast projects for Christianizing (i.e. Europeanization), and protection of even the most savage aborigines, to encouragement and successful establishment of all kinds of schools and universities, hospitals, and the production of scholars and a very respectable literature-a far more exciting and plentiful literature, by the way, than colonial English-America produced. This is to say nothing of economic and commercial activities on the grand scale. Students are invariable surprised to learn that, for all its weakness, the general system and aim was that of ‘ennoblement’ (ennoblecer) rather than destruction.” (50) (*)
Can you read?
Culturally speaking, Spain gave the very best to America. “The Spanish record of some twenty three colleges and universities in America, graduating 150,000 (including the poor, mestizos, and some Negroes) makes, for example, the Dutch in the East Indies at a later and supposedly more enlightened times, look obscurantism indeed. The Portuguese did not establish a single university in colonial Brazil nor in any other overseas possessions. The total of universities established by Belgium, England, Germany, France and Italy during later Afro-Asian colonial periods assuredly suffers by any fair comparison with the pioneering record of Spain.” (49)
Are you blind?
“The position of free coloreds in Havana is happier than in any of the nations which, for many centuries, have prided themselves in the advances of civilization (43)(*) Integration through the mix of Europeans, Blacks and Indians were the characteristic of the Spanish and Portuguese colonies in contrast to the segregationist attitude that prevailed in the English, French and Dutch colonies.
In comparing the fate of slaves in different countries, the new Encyclopedia Britannica (Macropedia, volume 16, page. 861) points out that: “By way of generalization, it may perhaps be said that slaves fared better in colonies of Catholic and Latin nations than those of Protestant countries Nevertheless, we must point out that the first voice to condemn black slavery in America was that of Quaker William Edmunson. In 1676 Edmunson wrote stating his belief that perpetual slavery was incompatible with Christ's law...However, the history of human rights should hold a special place for the man who apparently was the first one to systematically and unequivocally condemn black slavery in a declaration made in Havana in 1681, Father Francisco José, the fiery Capuchin friar born in Jaca, Aragón. (44)
Are you still there Tim?
Humboldt often points out that the Spanish legislation was the most humanae...These laws were always interpreted in favor of freedom. The Government desired to increase the number of freed men. A slave who, by his own industry, has managed to put together some money, can force his master to set him free under payment of the moderate sum of 1,500 to 2,000 francs. Freedom cannot be refused to a Negro under the pretext that he cost three times as much when he was bought, or that he had a special talent for a particular craft. A slave who has been cruelly ill-treated thereby acquires his freedom under the terms of the law...The Spanish law ensures four rights to the slave which all other nations refuse him: to seek a better owner, to whom his previous one is bound to let him go; to marry as he wishes; to buy back his freedom at the lowest market price, or to win it as a reward for good services; to own property and to buy the freedom of his wife and children. Humboldt contrasts this system with the legislation inflicted on the slaves in the French and English possessions.
Do you need more "professor" Tim?
As American Professor Philip Powell stated in his book “Tree of hate”, “we do not need to salve our egos by blowing up our colonial past while belittling Ibero-America. Let us be satisfied with whatever praise we might wish to lavish on our phenomenal rise to power in the past century or so… It is a bit sobering, too, to reflect upon such matters as the depth in time and experience of a Hispanic civilization that was flourishing in the days of Rome, while so much of our North European ancestry was still in comparative savagery or barbarism; or the cultural riches of an Iberia of the Middle Ages-Christian, Muslim and Jewish. These are too often skimped in our general histories, which only reluctantly touches anything south of the Pyrenees. Also sobering is the thought of a Spanish Golden Age of empire and intellectuality lasting nearly two centuries and reaching the heights along almost every line of cultural endeavor. A golden age, incidentally, of a kind that comes to few peoples.
Tim you are a racist. You may respond, but I'm all done trying to correct your views. You may permeate in the bliss of your ingnorance ad finitum. C ya!
My God Tim,
In the USA we had slavery up until only hundred years or so. Women only gained the right to vote and attend school barely fifty years ago. Segration was legal until as of late. Are you that blind, that racist, that ignorant to give credit where credit is due. Lets be clear here though, nobody is exonerating the atrocities and saying they never happened, but lets give credit where credit is due, for God's sake and ours. Let go of your racist attitude already. Read the evidence, pick up a scholarly book for God's sake!
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