Are American true native speakers of English?

Milli   Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:18 pm GMT
Do they have a real feeling for English when they speak or do they maintain a psychological distance between their thinking and their English? For example in my native tongue (German) I often just know when something is correct because of how it sounds, because German is not a foreign language to me, but someone who is learning it often says many things that sound strange in native speaker's ears. Are Americans able to do this in English the same as British people probably do when they speak English? How do Americans sound to British in this regard? Do they sound like "true" native speakers but with accent or more like foreigners who are not native speakers?
Milli   Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:40 pm GMT
For example in Singapore and India many people speak English but not really as native speakers. Is American English like this too? What is the difference?
???   Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:55 pm GMT
Of course they are native speakers, albeit of a different dialect. How could they maintain a psychological distance between their thinking and their English? Surely that would only be possible if they spoke ANOTHER language as their first language. What other language are they going to be thinking in then?

On the other hand, the version of English that they speak is of course different in some ways to other variants of English. We British are quite used it as a result of exposure to American TV and films, so it doesn't usually sound strange. However a few of the structures still do. Their greater use of the simple past i.e. 'Did you eat already' sounds odd to British ears, and the one that sounds really off to me 'Did you write her' (although 'did you write to her' is also possible). Now that really does sound like a mistake a non-native speaker would make (probably similar to if some one said 'Hast du sie geschrieben?' in German). But British English probably sounds much more strange to American ears due to far less exposure to British TV and films.
Milli   Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:58 pm GMT
".... 'did you write to her' is also possible). Now that really does sound like a mistake a non-native speaker would make"


If they are "native speakers" why do they make the mistakes that you describe? Shouldn't a native speaker know better?
Damian in Edinburgh   Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:21 pm GMT
***Are Americans able to do this in English...... when they speak English?.... How do Americans sound to British in this regard?

Brit response: Like ex....very, very ex.... very, very rhoticised colonials! ;-)
???   Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:23 pm GMT
>>If they are "native speakers" why do they make the mistakes that you describe? Shouldn't a native speaker know better?<<

They aren't mistakes, they are just part of their dialect. There are different dialects of German, aren't there? Do you consider Austrians not to be native German speakers because they speak differently? Do you consider them on a par with learners of German?

Hmmm, methinks this might be a wind up anyway!
Super Korean   Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:34 pm GMT
The thing is, in Singapore and India, they speak their native languages at home or with close friends and English is like their official language that is used for interethnic communication. For most Singaporeans and Indians, English is not the language they feel most confident and comfortable when speaking.

However, in America and Canada(except for Quebecois and newly immigrated families), people speak English at home, school and work.
They don't have other languages for their daily lives. In fact, many Americans don't speak other languages at all. In that sense, Americans are true native speakers of English.

You should've questioned Scottish, Welsh and Irish people as well. They used to speak their own languages and some(although rare) still speak the languages.
Jake   Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:29 pm GMT
Milli

Americans are native speakers, just there are many different types of English.
Why is not the british that make 'mistakes' rather than Americans?

It is like Swiss German Speakers, they say things differently yes?
A Schweizerdeutsch speaker may say words in a different order, and to a Germany German speaker it will be a 'mistake'
But to the Schweizerdeutsch speaker, the German person is making the mistake

Americans speak English, just slightly differently,
For example,
Americans say 'I've gotten bit before'
Britains say 'I've been bit before'

Not an error, just a different way, but still correct
Caspian   Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:15 pm GMT
No we don't. We say 'I've been bitten before'

And I think Americans say 'I was bit before'
Lazar   Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:24 pm GMT
Actually I think most Americans would be inclined to say "I've been bitten before". Some Americans may be really progressive in their replacement of the present perfect with the preterite, but I think you'd find that a lot of Americans don't diverge so greatly from the British usage.
Skippy   Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:32 pm GMT
It'd more likely been "I've been bitten before" or even "I got bit before."
Caspianq   Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:38 pm GMT
Lol I love the title of this thread - even I'm not quite that bad!!
Kelly Key   Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:19 pm GMT
I just got back. (common)
I've just gotten back. (not common)
I've just got back. (not grammatical)
LL   Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:28 pm GMT
Yeah, maybe I have no mother tongue (native language) because I speak Amerikanisch, oder?
upstater   Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:24 am GMT
<<I've just got back. (not grammatical) >>

Doesn't sound too ungrammatical to me.