Does Dutch commonly use jij/je for the general pronoun

blank   Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:17 pm GMT
Sometimes Dutch and Flemish people find a "different" languages in Belgium and the Netherlands- West and East Flemish,Limburgish,Brabantish,Zeeuws,Grunnegs,Achterhooks,Twents and so on. In fact,all of them are Dutch dialects,not languages(Low German is separated group of dialects).For example there is one language in France-French. Picard,Francoprovençal and others are dialects of French.
CommonAswhole   Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:18 pm GMT
People from Antwerp en Ghent tend to think along the same lines.

Mainly people from Limburg and West Flanders are this stubborn (I may anger some people with this lol). But in fact, it doesn't differ from the minor difference Belgian French/French French too much I think.
Belgian francophones are less purist than French when it comes to using English words I reckon reading (they often use the English version of Microsoft Word because 'police de charactères' sounds too odd for them instead of 'font').
They also count slightly differently (septante/soixante-dix, huitante (rarely)/quatre-vingts, nonante/quatre-vingt-dix).

And many more regionalisms. I have heard a Walloon using the idiom 'tirer son plan' one day. Have we borrowed our idiom 'zijn plan trekken' from them or the other way arround? I dunno.

Bah, Flanders, I cannot even explain us that well for I barely understand everything about it. lol!
12345   Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:16 pm GMT
I think my dialect looks a bit like Frisian.

Hem'm (to have)
Ik heb (I have)
Du hest (You have)
Ur het (He has) (U is spoken like in Dutchw ord 'urn')
Sie het (She has)
It het (It has)
Wie hem'm (We have)
Jim hem'm (You have) Plural
Sie hem'm (They have)

Hestoe? (Have you?) (It is Hest du, but made one word in spoken language)
Mien huus (My house)
dien huus (Your house)
sien huus (his house)
heur huus (her house)
oons huus (our house)
jim huus (Your house) plural
hun huus (Their house)

And indeed we don't have a prefix at perfect.
Ik bin noar huus goan. (I've gone home)
Bistoe doar west? (Have you been there?)


(Of course it's written in a 'Dutch' way as I can't write my dialect.)
CID   Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:36 pm GMT
<<Ik bin noar huus goan. (I've gone home) >>

How do you outspeak the "g" in "goan"? As in Dutch (guttural) or as in English?

And how is it in Frysk?
12345   Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:06 pm GMT
«CID Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:36 pm GMT
<<Ik bin noar huus goan. (I've gone home) >>

How do you outspeak the "g" in "goan"? As in Dutch (guttural) or as in English?

And how is it in Frysk? »

We speak it guttural, in Frysk the 'g' is like in English.

(I live 5km from the Frisian border as I live in Groningen-province) :)
Nederlandiek   Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:56 am GMT
Afrikaans has the following pronouns:

Ek = Ik = I
Jy = Jij/Je = You
Hy,Sy = Hij,Zij = He,She
Ons = Wij/We = We
Julle = Jullie = You (Plural & informal)
U = U = You (Singular/Plural & formal)
Hulle = Zij = They
rep   Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:55 am GMT
Low (Saxon)German:
Du=You (Thou)
rep   Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:27 am GMT
Kleverländisch Low German:
Du=You (singular)
Jej=You (plural)
12345   Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:28 am GMT
«rep Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:55 am GMT
Low (Saxon)German:
Du=You (Thou)
Se=They »

I don't think you can say that as it differs from region to region.
rep   Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:48 pm GMT
Kaeops   Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:16 pm GMT
Gij/ge are not preferred forms on Belgian internet, which may mean Belgians are ashamed of writing it down:

google site:be

gij: 412.000
ge: 1.290.000

jij: 1.670.000
je: 21.700.000

Even on forums, jij/je is far more common.

gij (20%): JIJ (80%)
ge (5%): JE (95%)
CommonAswhole   Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:22 pm GMT
In written form that's true. Almost everyone writes 'je/jij'. But people don't write like they talk of course. When I type out 'ge/gij' it's always when I want to exclamate something or when I want to show my human side by using a more informal way of writing.

Still, people won't use 'ge/gij' outside soaps and such I think. I have heard it in Dutch series too, when they include people from Brabant. It's stupid to use 'gij' in official media, would sound way too informal. Radio and TV hosts aren't supposed to speak informal, unless it's indirect.
Kaeops   Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:28 pm GMT
gij 1.240 (22%)
jij 4.370 (78%)

ge 4.950 (15%)
je 30.000 (85%)

Similar distribution on TMF (the music factory) belgian site.
JIJ/JE are preferred and much more used.
Guest   Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:36 pm GMT
<<Ji=You >>

Ji = Ye : )
Kaeops   Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:44 pm GMT
Flemish people are using JIJ/JE preferrably on forums and in chatrooms which makes them a neutral form, and gij/ge should be avoided, as it is dialectal used only in SOME regions of Flanders, and only be SOME people. Even a teen band K3 uses JIJ/JE and never GIJ/GE and they are as informal as one can be:

JE Hebt Een Vriend - K3

A random forum

JIJ: 633 (92%)
GIJ: 51

JE: 381 (52%)
GE: 346

And on site ( server), jij/je are used in the 99% percentage range.

So, I guess GIJ/GE in Flanders is just like THEE in England, it is used only in some regions, and it's usage its declining.