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How does modern Hebrew sound to non-Hebrew speakers?
Is there anyone who speaks Hebrew with a Yemeni accent today? I thought it was used just for prayers and songs.
And you can see that he is Yemeni even when speaking like a hm... regular... Sephardic. People from Yemen have a real strong and unusual accent - even compared to other Arabs.
And talking about a Shas supporter, huh =]
http://transliteration.org/Quran/Pronunciation/Letters/TashP.htm
Does anyone know if there is a site like that but in Hebrew? (I’m looking for the Sephardic and Yemeni accents)
Oriental Hebrew sounds quite similar to Arabic, but the accent used in the first videos is something between Arabic and German, very harsh though.
Sorry if I'm deviating from the subject but I'm interested in Biblical Hebrew
and have studied it for a while. I would like to know if Biblical Hebrew and Modern Hebrew are as distant as , for instance, Modern and Classical Greek and if it would be better to study Biblical Hebrew first before moving on to Modern Hebrew or if studying Modern Hebrew I would be able to read the Torah as well. Last but not least, I wonder if anybody knows a DECENT Modern Hebrew material that will help me pass the basics, which I have never been able to do due to lack of good materials for studying.
תדהושלום!
<<I would like to know if Biblical Hebrew and Modern Hebrew are as distant as , for instance, Modern and Classical Greek and if it would be better to study Biblical Hebrew first before moving on to Modern Hebrew or if studying Modern Hebrew I would be able to read the Torah as well>>
As a Modern Hebrew native speaker I tend to believe you're better off studying modern Hebrew rather than Biblical Hebrew. It's easy to explain: Biblical Hebrew is no longer spoken by anyone, not even by most Haredi Jews. Moreover, it's quite a "poor" language consisting of no more than 20,000 words. Biblical Hebrew as a different syntax, and this might be the biggest obstacle for a modern Hebrew speaker who tries to read and understand biblical texts.
To sum up, it seems to me that if you learn Biblical Hebrew you won't really be able to communicate with Israelis. However, if you get to know Modern Hebrew, you'll be far likely to understand, at least to some extent, biblical texts.
Last thing you should know is that Biblical Hebrew consists of many words that are not in use in Modern Hebrew, at least in the colluquial one, and are not understood by most Israelis.
Very harsh, glottal and hissing to me, Arabic is much more pleasant.
"The same happens in Modern Hebrew. Distinctions between Khaf and Heit or Aleph and Ayin are disappearing. Hebrew is no longer phonetic as it used to be in the Biblical era, but that's the way a languge develop. "
Golem,
You just can't compare the natural development of other languages, such as English, to what happened to the Hebrew language. The way Hebrew is spoken these days is the complete opposite of that. It is unnatural and artificial [and even imposed] and it has a lot more to do with the germanic mass immigration to Israel than with "the way language develop".
______________
More original name,
I couldn't find the spehardic vocalization, but you can use the arabic one that you posted. They are really close... except for tzadi, ghain, pei, jaam and a few others.
I found the yemeni: http://sagavyah.tripod.com/ALEFBET.html
enjoy =)
<<The way Hebrew is spoken these days is the complete opposite of that. It is unnatural and artificial [and even imposed]>>
Jafar,
What do you mean by "imposed"? a little child who is born in Israel learns to speak in an Israeli accent, there's nothing imposed on him. Is the way an Israeli infant speaks could be considered unnatural? The Israeli accent could have been imposed a hundred years ago or so when the language was resurrected. But today it's so natural that all other ways of speaking it seem weird.
“What do you mean by "imposed"? a little child who is born in Israel learns to speak in an Israeli accent, there's nothing imposed on him. Is the way an Israeli infant speaks could be considered unnatural?”
I don’t want to be rude, but I think you’re wrong AND missing the point here.
It doesn´t matter for how long Israelis are speaking Hebrew like Germans or even if it’s “natural” these days. It doesn’t change what I’m saying.
Forget about "Israeli infant", "Israeli accent" and Israel and, in the same sentence, think about A Native American infant, English and America.
Hebrew was not dead. In fact, it was spoken in Israel/Palestine long before Eliezer Ben Yehuda.
100 years ago? The ethnic tensions between ashkenazic and sepharadic Israelis in the mid 70’s, the social and governmental prejudice against sephardics and Jewish-Arab immigrants, the missing Yemenite children, the ringworm children and the state radio refusing to play Mizrahi music, despite it’s obvious popularity… this all happened just a few years ago.
What I’m saying since the beginning is that there was no “natural development” of the Hebrew language (and Israeli accent). The only way you can compare it to other languages is if you imagine a mass immigration of hundreds of millions of angry Mexicans that have no respect, and even despise the local culture and, since they think that American way of speaking, their traditions and culture is of “uneducated people” (as Ben Gurion said), they try to create a new American identity based in their old Mexican one.. that would be a valid comparison to what happened in Israel.
That’s what I meant when I said that the Israeli accent (and the "white", western ashkenazic-based Israeli identity) was imposed in Israel.
It is really sad that for the European Jewry to be able to create their Israeli identity they had to destroy the already existing one.
À la fin du XIXème siècle et au début du XXème, on prononçait l'hébreu, en Haute Galilée, d'une façon assez différente de l'hébreu israélien que nous connaissons aujourd'hui. Il paraît que cette façon de prononcer était beaucoup plus fidèle aux racines sémitiques de cette langue. De nos jours, ce dialecte est éteint.
À ce propos, je vous conseille ce livre:
Aaron Bar-Adon
The rise and decline of a dialect
A Study in the Revival of Modern Hebrew
The University of Texas, Auston, Texas
1975 The Hague.Paris
<<100 years ago? The ethnic tensions between ashkenazic and sepharadic Israelis in the mid 70’s, the social and governmental prejudice against sephardics and Jewish-Arab immigrants, the missing Yemenite children, the ringworm children and the state radio refusing to play Mizrahi music, despite it’s obvious popularity… this all happened just a few years ago.>>
What the hell does that have to do with the develpment of modern Hebrew? Hebrew, as was spoken until the late 19th century was not a vivid language, and served particularly for praying. Modern Hebrew is not "germanized" however, but rather it is heavily influenced by the sephardic accent. For instance, most Hebrew words are pronounced in ultimate stress, unlike German. Mizrahim oppression, if ever existed, has nothing to do with the development of tha language.
Much of English is based on Hebrew. The OR words in English - refer to LIGHT because the Hebrew word for light is "OR". Examples: TORCH, AURA ( disregard spelling and listen ) HORIZON, ORANGE, FORNACE ( Italian for furnace), COLOR ( which means all light in Hebrew - KOL-OR ) . The famous Hebrew Passover song " DAH-ENU" which means " he gave us enough" - has the English word ENOUGH buried in it ( the ENU ) - the DAH refers to GIVING in English as well - as in DONATE or DAUGHTER ( given away as a bride ) . There is much more too. The word EARTH has the same phonemes as the Hebrew word ARETZ or ERETZ ( which means Earth ) . It is Hebrew inspired for sure. My soon to be published book " Deciphering The English Code" will explain this in detail.
<<Much of English is based on Hebrew>>
These might seem at the most mere coincidences. Hebrew and English have no common origins. The former is Semitic and the latter is Indo-European. English might have absorbed a few words from Hebrew, but these examples seem exaggerated. However, some more examples: the English word "jubilee" is derived from the Hebrew "yovel" and "passover" is a very good translation of "pessah" - both words have the same sound and meaning.
- I heard that Hebrew was the 'de facto' language in Palestine and it was used in day-by-day situations long before it's so called revitalization.
- A "new" approach to this Hebrew language or 'Israeli' language can be found in professor Zuckermann's writings.
He is an "Israeli linguist [who] is insisting that the modern Hebrew is a semi-engineered European-hybrid language that is different from the language of the old testament and should therefore be described as Israeli"
- "if ever existed, has nothing to do with the development of tha language"
I'm not sure, but I think he said that it had to do with the development of the Israeli accent, and not with the development of the language.
And if I'm right, I agree with him.
In Israel, because of the European political elite (and the prejudice of the European immigrants), the Middle Eastern accent became associated with poverty, lack of education and with the enemy. How could anyone speak like that if it meant the worse you could be in Israel?
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