English is spoken better by the English

Beathag   Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:13 pm GMT
>>And to the other nay-sayers the pollution i am refering to is the American annoying habit of using of the letter "Z". (Especially when using Microsoft Word) <<

You can set it to British English- or at least you can on my American program. ;-)
That's how I practice spelling like a Brit at home- just set it to British English for corrections, etc.

>>Damian, that was a most interesting post. I don't think I've ever read such a post from a native UK-er.

Coming from a small town in the Bible Belt (but not living there for three decades), I have inherited its distaste for imbibing. My intolerance for drinking is probably something I need to work on.

Even people from other parts of the US have commented on the Britisher's love of drink. It's possibly the single biggest cultural barrier, from an American's point of view.<<

I have realized that no one in my family, extended or otherwise, drinks. And it's only my parent's and siblings who are the LDS. We don't judge people who do... we just don't like the taste of acohol. ;-)
Beathag   Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:14 pm GMT
alcohol*
Jasper   Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:42 pm GMT
"We don't judge people who do... we just don't like the taste of alcohol."

ROFL! I don't like the taste of alcohol, either, but for some reason, I'm shy about admitting it. To me, alcohol tastes either industrial or medicinal, and no amount of added flavor can hide that unpleasant taste.

This unfortunate fact would make us social pariahs in Europe, I'm afraid.
Avicenna   Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:54 pm GMT
Does your definition of alcohol include bear and wine? Just curious.
Another Guest   Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:32 pm GMT
Damian wrote: <<If he can stiffen his sinews and gird up his loins I suggest he tunes >>

Should be "tune".

<<particularly in England which has an entirely different education system to that of Scotland.>>

"which has an education system entirely different from".

<<One the UK news this morning>>
"On the news".

You also were missing several commas.


Gregorvitch wrote:

<<social attack agaist the English.>>
Should be "against". And considering that this started out as an attack n Americans, who are you to talk?

<<I am of course referiing to Damian, to those without a basic knowledge of British Poltics,>>
"referring" and "politics"

<<For centuries the conquered races of Britain>>
"For centuries, the"

<<As for the remarks about Alcohol, it is true that we may have one Brandy to many but i doubt a society of drunks could have had the largest Empire this planet has ever seen, oh wait that was the English.>>
You capitalized "alcohol" and "brandy", but not "I". Odd.

<<And to the other nay-sayers the pollution i am refering to is the American annoying habit of using of the letter "Z". >>
Comma between "nay-sayers" and "the", capitalize "I", "referring" again.

<<p.s: How many gramatical errors did i make this time? first person to answer this time wins a prize>>
Capital P.S., "I", and "First" , two m's in "grammatical", and period at the end.

Rapp
<<The people who are counting errors in K.T.'s post need more practice recognizing sarcasm. I'm ROFL-ing. >>
They're not counting errors in K.T.'s post, they're them in Gregorvitch's. You're the one not reading carefully.

Beathag wrote:
<<And it's only my parent's and siblings who are the LDS. >>
Parents.

Avicenna wrote:
<<Does your definition of alcohol include bear and wine? Just curious. >>
Surely you meant "beer.
Jasper   Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:50 pm GMT
Avicenna: "Does your definition of alcohol include bear and wine? Just curious."

I'm afraid so, Avicenna.

I sincerely tried to develop a taste for wine, being a huge fan of French cuisine. But one day, I had an epiphany. I looked myself in the mirror and reflected, "Why am I trying to learn to drink this? What am I doing to myself? I don't like the taste of this."

I've not had anything to drink since then, and that was two or three years ago.

As for beer? I can taste the bitter herb hops in it. It reminds me of a chewed-up aspirin.

I believe that a lot of people drink because of peer pressure, not because they actually like the taste.
Damian London SW15   Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:39 pm GMT
Gregorvitch - you have got it wrong big time on this one - no way was I launching a social attack on my good friends the English as a race of people.....many of my best friends are from here in England and I ove them all. As usual here in the UK it is the minority which gets all the publicity and it is the minority of people in this country who misuse alcohol and drugs in the way they do, but sadly it seems to be the minority that is expanding in numbers and involving much younger elements of British society, even those below the legal drinking age of 18 in the whole of the UK.

The reasons for this are quite obvious - the very lax attitude to alcohol in the UK as a whole...have you ever seen a British TV soap which doesn't regularly feature a pub as a prime setting for action? There's no such thing - no UK soap is complete without a local pub as a focal point for social intercourse of all kinds.

The cheapness of booze in relative terms and all the "special offers" on offer in the shops and supermarkets, the "Happy Hours" in most pubs - half price deals and two for ones and all that kind of caper designed to entice people into spending as much dosh as possible, the very easy access to alcohol in practically every retail establishment, from the mega superstores to the tiny village shop in the tiniest village in the depths of the country.....and off course the prepondernance of "off licenses" which, to non Brits, is a store which specifcally retails wines, spirits, beers, ales, ciders and everything else imbibable which has an alcoholic volume label attached to the bottle.

On top of all this younger people have been enticed into booze by the widespread sale of highly accessible alcopops - seemingly harmless fruit drinks of various flavours but with the added buzz of alcohol included, and to the average 13 to 18 year old supping a couple of these, after being sold them illegally in the first place* is soon off on a bender.

*In the UK you have to be 18 before you can buy any kind of alcohol, but many 15 year olds, dressed in all their bling and burberry, and, if female, fully made up and tarted up, easily look over age. Now action is being taken to stop this scandal, and all retailers will lose their licesnses if it is proved that they sold booze to minors. ID is now strictly required before any alcohol is sold to people who look as if they may be under age.

Many pub licencees or bar staff have always been wary about selling booze to people who look as if they may be under 18. I have experience of this and it was only two years ago when I was the grand old age of 25! I ordered a couple of pints at the bar of a pub in London here...in Hampstead High Street actually... (I was working down here in London then too) and the barman "looked funny" at me and asked: "And how old are you then, sonny?" I could have leapt over the bar and thumped him but no way would I have carried that out, but believe me many a blootered bloke here in Booze Britain would most probably have done just that!

Alcohol has always been very easy to obtain in the UK - the British pub traditionally has always been the centre of social life in practically every community, and up until Labour came to power all licensed premises (ie any establishment selling alcohol) were restricted to set hours in which they could open - such as 11:00hrs to 15:00hrs and 17:30hrs to 22:30hrs Mon - Fri, extended to 23:00hrs Saturdays, and on Sundays 12:00hrs to 14:00hrs and 19:00hrs - 22:30hrs - but variations in these hours occurred depending on the locality in the UK.

At one time there was no Sunday opening at all in either Scotland or Wales but that changed years ago and now it's open house everywhere 7 days a week, and in some large urban areas and city centres there are no restrictions whatsoever on opening hours - pubs there can remain open 24/7 if they so wish. All these changes have taken place since the present Labour Government came to power in 1997, but which is now guaranted to be kick-arsed out of office at the next UK General Election which MUST be held before 03 June 2010 at the latest.

Combine all this with the afore mentioned traditional British relaxed attitude to alcohol and a general acceptance of it as part and parcel of British social life, and, until very recently, the on going TV advertisements for alcoholic beverages - now banned as one of the measures to combat present problems - then its easy to see how binge drinking and unruly behaviour on the streets late at night or whenever the pubs and clubs "chuck out" at closing time has become a serious problem in many parts of the UK, especially in urban areas, but even seemingly "sleepy country twons" are not immune from this kind of thing, especially on Fri/Sat/Sun nights into the early mornings.

In this respect the American situation seems to be quite different - over there there really does seem to be some kind of attitudinal taboo on any kind of public displays of alcohol excess and people who appear to be "under the influence" are regarded as social pariahs. At least that's what it appears to be on the surface, as its seems that behind closed doors and drawn curtains there may well be a quite different scene, and the history of America really does show a very hazardous relationship with alcohol. Isn't that the case?

Every single American community has a "branch" of a worldwide organisation that first saw the light of day in 1935 - in Akron, Ohio, USA! Almost all American towns and cities hold very regular meetings of AA on a pretty wide scale, so Old Man Booze really does cause problems in a land which likes to portray such an image of sober propriety! But that's in public - all American supping must be done out of sight and out of mind, it seems. Brits and other Europeans, mostly NORTHERN Europeans, are not quite so socially inhibited and discreet! ;-)

Furthermore, the Americans even went so far as to totally and completely ban the sale of that nasty Demon Drink anywhere and everywhere in their country for a full 14 years! Even with our current problems here in the UK don't even try to suggest the same kind of venture over here! Prohibition in Britain? Nah - it's just not on, mate - it'd never catch on, no way - dead in the water form the word go! ;-)

That really would be the End of Civilisation as we know it if such a bizarre thing as Prohibition was forced on jolly old Boozed Up Blighty! It wouldn't have been entertained in 1919-1933 nor now in the 21st century Binge Drunk Britain! ;-)

But as I say....it really is a minority all said and done but they're the ones that always get to be in the limelight of publicity.

I and all my mates always have a good time, enjoy our merry sessions in the pub but we always know when it's time to call time! And so do most Brits, but the media don't want to know about us do they? The UK really does have about the most negative press and media in the whole world! It really does - they always look out for the negative side of life.....now that really is a national characteristic.

Generally, the Americans are more positive in outlook - they tend to keep the bad things under wraps... ;-)
Damian London SW15   Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:50 pm GMT
Here is just a taster of what happens on a regular basis on the streets of many British towns and cities late at night, especially at weekends.

The YT report focuses on the City of Sheffield, in South Yorkshire, England. What you will see is happening very often, especially when all the pubs and clubs are closing. No way is Sheffield exception - in fact it's very typical!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzSpf8YW5Bs

Yes, Jasper, I am a UKer through and through and working in the job I do it's my duty to show everything as it really is. This is the seedier side to British life. I am no way a prude of any kind at all, but I think the abuse of alcohol in the UK has now reached the point of being a national disgrace and a cause for shame in an otherwise very civilsed country.
Beathag   Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:57 pm GMT
>>I sincerely tried to develop a taste for wine, being a huge fan of French cuisine. But one day, I had an epiphany. I looked myself in the mirror and reflected, "Why am I trying to learn to drink this? What am I doing to myself? I don't like the taste of this."

I've not had anything to drink since then, and that was two or three years ago.

As for beer? I can taste the bitter herb hops in it. It reminds me of a chewed-up aspirin.

I believe that a lot of people drink because of peer pressure, not because they actually like the taste. <<

I'm never given much of a hard time for not drinking, because I guess I look like a goody-two-shoes. It's against my faith to drink, but I have tried it and it literally makes me sick. Bad, bad taste!
Beer tastes and looks a lot like what I imagine piss would.
Wine? Grapes gone BAD! Haha.
But where I live, and at my age (22), most of my friends see nothing wrong with going to the bar and getting trashed. Even people who are uppity Baptists drink a lot here- it was a big deal when my county went wet a few months back.

>>In this respect the American situation seems to be quite different - over there there really does seem to be some kind of attitudinal taboo on any kind of public displays of alcohol excess and people who appear to be "under the influence" are regarded as social pariahs. At least that's what it appears to be on the surface, as its seems that behind closed doors and drawn curtains there may well be a quite different scene, and the history of America really does show a very hazardous relationship with alcohol. Isn't that the case? <<

Haven't been to many bars- limited to my state here. But I would say that it's not a taboo here if you are a young adult. I think it's more taboo when you are percieved to be old enough to not go out and get wasted.
Because I think that college life is percieved as being boozy- and because people see it as being ok, it often is boozy for many.
Sad, I have had many a friend killed because of a drunk driver.
Jasper   Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:12 am GMT
↑ " But I would say that it's not a taboo here if you are a young adult. I think it's more taboo when you are percieved to be old enough to not go out and get wasted.
Because I think that college life is percieved as being boozy- and because people see it as being ok, it often is boozy for many. "

Beathag, you're probably right to a certain extent about college students, but it all has to be put into perspective. A college student is permitted—nay, expected—to get snockered on Friday and Saturday nights, but during the week is supposed to stay sober; if he were to drink every day, he'd be looked at with very wary an eye.

By contrast, Brits of all ages don't think anything at all of drinking every single day. (I know this by listening to people, watching movies, and reading posts right here on Antimoon.) An American—even a 20-something—who drank every day would almost certainly be deemed an alcoholic. Moreover, I've heard that British bosses will often take their subordinates out to lunch for a beer; as a matter of fact, drinking on the job in general is not seen as any great big deal. To give one example, once on Agatha Christie's Poirot I saw Inspector Japp, a policeman(!), drink a pint of ale while still on the job—an action that would almost certainly cost his job in the States.

In short, no matter how bad a problem we Americans think we have on the topic of drinking, the Brits really do seem to have it far, far worse.
Uriel   Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:19 am GMT
<<i completely agree with gregorvitch, i find it quite annoying when on the computer my dictionary automatically choses the american version of English, when i do change it it only returns to the American spelling. when reviewing a piece of English coursework it is quite infuriating to see where the teacher has penalized me for mistakes an american computer programmer is responsible for, i believe that is what Gregorvitch is referring to when he says "polluted" >>

Oh dear! What a huge conspiracy against you! Have you thought about the following options?

1. Turn off your spellchecker. That's right. You didn't go through years of primary and secondary education for nothing. It's your own language. You invented it, right, as you're all so fond of telling the world? Then you should be able to write in it without Auntie Microsoft looking over your shoulder. Go on. Have some confidence in your native intelligence. Your teacher may actually be impressed! And surely all of your other peers aren't falling prey to the dreaded red pen -- they've obviously learned to outwit the system, and merrily transpose their R's and E's, and type in all those subversive extra U's.

2. Invent your own homegrown spellchecking software. I'm sure there's a market for it. Other Brits, Kiwis, and Aussies will be falling all over themselves to shell out for it. You'll be rich! Two fingers to Auntie, mate!

3. While you're at it, why not invent a whole alternate operating system? Auntie's already lost that monopoly suit in the European courts. The market is wide open! The time is now! Seize the day! Or you know, just sit back with that stiff upper lip quivering into your ale and whine about it -- sorry, whinge. If you insist on using all that traitorous rebel software, what do you really expect? ;P
K. T.   Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:37 am GMT
"An American—even a 20-something—who drank every day would almost certainly be deemed an alcoholic."

Yes, I think many people would see it that way too. The key being "American"...
K. T.   Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:39 am GMT
This is one of the funniest threads I've seen recently here, btw.
Beathag   Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:41 am GMT
>>Beathag, you're probably right to a certain extent about college students, but it all has to be put into perspective. A college student is permitted—nay, expected—to get snockered on Friday and Saturday nights, but during the week is supposed to stay sober; if he were to drink every day, he'd be looked at with very wary an eye. <<

And that's just something that, as a pretty mature twenty-something I just do not get. People expect you to experiment in college with a lot of things and frankly, I've already decided what I like. ;-)
God, I read what I just wrote and am horrified that it makes me sound conservative. I'm not Molly Mormon. I'm pretty liberal. I just don't understand the need to lose control of yourself by getting drunk. I'm too much of a control freak lol.

Oh and Uriel, you made me smile. :-)
Damian London SE22   Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:22 am GMT
***Damian wrote: <<If he can stiffen his sinews and gird up his loins I suggest he tunes >>

Should be "tune".

<<particularly in England which has an entirely different education system to that of Scotland.>>

"which has an education system entirely different from".

<<One the UK news this morning>>
"On the news".

You also were missing several commas***

Thank you for your pedantic comments on my sloppy speech posted in haste as usual......I noted most of them once I'd clicked on the button. It really is difficult at times to remember to post in this forum in absolutely correct grammatical English and not in the casual way most of us speak in the Great Outside.

You so remind me of Miss Logan, our lovely English teacher back in my high school who was an absolute tartar and a stickler for total accuracy at all times. It seems that I've failed her miserably and I really hope she doesn't log into Antimoon and recognises me from my posts. Foolishly, perhaps, I have used my real name during the entire time I've been contributing to this Forum. I'm thinking of changing it to Lysander, one of my favourite Shakespearean characters.

Talking of which my favourite Shakespearean speech is that of Henry himself in Henry V, Act III, Sc I, a wee snippet of which I used in the post you so kind corrected, minus the girded loins bit....about the most stirring of all the great Shakespearean quotations, and portions of it are now used on a regular basis in everyday speech, as is the case with many other expressions in his plays and sonnets. Many of us use them casually without realising their origin.

I'm always losing commas in here.....thanks for returning them to me! Cheers! It's Friday!!! - Yay! - the whole of Britain will be getting slaughtered tonight......I really can't imagine the average Brit (or European for that matter) existing for very long in the (famous? notorious?) American Bible Belt - the word Purgatory comes to mind right now! ;-)