English is spoken better by the English

gregorvitch   Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:24 pm GMT
To the people who deny themselve drink

your arguments that alcohol can cause tradgedy when drunk in copius amounts are just, however i am part of the majority who drinks aware, never drinking more than the satisfactory amount (other than special occassions : Birthdays and such). i find your damnation of alcohol to be unjustified. For many a trip to the pub on the weekend is a way to relax after a 12-hour shift, to cath- up with friends and to have a good time.

Damian your argument that alcohol is everywhere in England is true, the local pub has become a social cornerstone of our scoiety, and its not because we are a country of alcoholics it is because of whats alcohol can provide. It aleviates the depressive atmosphere which hangs over the heads of the working classes (you may notice that the communities in those uk soaps are made up of these people i.e. Emmerdale, Eastenders and Coronation street). This depressive atmosphere is a constant throughtout British history, poverty in the 19th century war in the 20th and the recession in the 21st. I can understand that some people dislike alcohol simply for its taste or its effects but i solemnly hope that you exclude yourselves from social situations in which it is being consumed, i've seen your type those who never take a sip because they wish to maintain the pristine image and sense of superiority. Why come to the pub if you won't even consider drinking? Do you seriously enjoys being with people who are, at the moment, of a unihibited.

To our cousins across the pond (and to damian) here is a list of the normal drinking patterns of your average English man

5-12 : ranging from a sip of wine to a shandy

12-15: alcopops no self-respecting teen would be seen drinking these chav drinks over the age of 15

15-16: depending on your appearance you can either go to a pub with laxed rules or you wander aroun at night drinking the cheapest and most alcoholic drink you can find.

17-30- pubs and clubs.

30-50- couple of drinks down your local.

50-80- drinking when watching sport on the telly or talkign about the old days with friends.

How could you possibly consider prohibition in the UK, it would indeed be shot down immediately. The Alcohol industry creates millions of jobs from brewers to bartenders, if prohibition became law it would require a police state to enforce it. The people would turn to criminals just like in America.

Damian you seem to be very anti-labour, is this because of the recent claims- scandal or is it something else. I wonder what party you do support , i would hope you dont support the conservatives.

Oh yes the americans are very good are not showing the world thier negative side aren't they. That countries history is plagued with dispicable acts, Hiroshima, Vietnam, The Middle East, Gang violence, Racism, Drug culture and the Recession. thier isn't a continent that hasn't known some of thier bad things. I also wish to point out the falseness of that idiotic cliche "That American saved us in World War 2" american intervention would have been inevitable and they never seem to mention that it was Russian forces who suffered the most throughout that war and ultimately weakened germany the most

Jasper
i thoroughly enjoyed your post it read like a character from a British comdey series known as "The League of Gentlemen". I can tell you that the youth of Britain certainly does not drink every day. During term time a youth is restricted to drink at the weekends during holiday periods a youth can be found drinking maybe 4 times a week. Its is economically impossible for a youth to afford to go out every night of the week, as the average night out costs between £15 and £20. They would have to have either a job or a wealthy and neglecting parent (said job would require sobriety ergo not be able to go out every week). As to your comment regarding drinking on the job, this usually only happens in business-class jobs and even then it is restricted to a few drinks and usually accompanied with a meal. And for Gods sake man! stop watching Poirot that moustacheoed man is a terrible detective, the stories are always so predictable and dull oh and its is fiction the police don't actually drink on the job (just watch the Bill to find out but not for too longed because it too is terrible)

damian
i have yet to meet the scotchman who slips shakespearean quotations into his everyday speech oh and do remeber to close the curtains and turn Newsnight as high as it goes lest the drunken revelers disturb your harmony
johnny   Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:30 pm GMT
Uriel
Britain students are forced to use microsoft word these days because thats what the schools buy, teachers no longer want to trawl through pages of unique handwriting and prefer typed work, oh and have you ever had to write about 3 plays in an hour making comparisons between them as you go, well the need to express yourself overwrites the need to express yourself in precise grammatical order. as for the computer stuff i am sorry to say that i pale in comparrison to the programming genius that you are. I must admit i am unable to create a program that would rival microsoft, but as you allready must have taken your own advice and become that fabled computer genius you can tell me how to do it.
Rene   Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:13 pm GMT
Johnny, you guys seem to be missing the point. All you have to do to stop the autocorrect function is to click on the Tools bar, go into options, choose autocorrect, and turn off "spell check as you type" and "always suggest corrections". This will take about a minute and a half and your problem is solved. You can even load your own dictionary into the program if you desire.

Gregorvitch- You do have a point that Americans often only portray their better side to the world at large (as best we can, anyway). I just don't understand the condemnation we get for this. What's the point in dwelling on the negatives and portraying ourselves as a boozy, pot-smoking, underpaid, non-insured, racist, gun-toting, prejudiced people? Sure, a minority are, but why are we going to show the world that side? When you go on a first date do you introduce yourself by saying, "Hello, I'm Gregor. I've dated 13 women before you and they all dumped me. My boss hates me and I think I might get fired soon. I have a fettish about my toenails and must clip them once a week: on Friday at 8:23 exactly. Oh, and I also love to watch sports- all the time- 24/7- preferably with chips and salsa."

No, I think not. Best foot forward.
Matt_is_evol   Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:20 pm GMT
@Damian London SW15

What century were you born in? You speak like Edward Cullen, like seriously.
Damian London E14   Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:59 pm GMT
Greg - one of the many significant differences between British and American social scenes actually involves the places most visited by the public and where alcohol is freely available to those who are over the minimum age for public drinking.....18 for the entire UK and 21 over in the USA, presumably applicable to all of the 50 American States but as these States are virtually self governing in so many ways with laws of their own it may vary from State to State - I'm not sure on that one without checking.

British people out for a drink and a bit of relaxation - and perhaps for a meal as well - visit the public house (the pub) - very prolific right across the UK, practically every community, from inner city areas to the smallest hamlet buried in the depths of the countryside, has at least one pub - many have quite a selection, often varying quite noticeably in character and atmosphere. Not only do people sup there, but they also have available all the facilities that go to make the typical British pub - several bars which in themselves differ in character and atmosphere - the public bar, sometimes called the saloon bar especially in inner city pubs - fitted out with the bar counter, snooker/pool table(s), dart board(s), a giant plasma TV mostly tuned into the sports channels as public bars, as a rule but not set in stone, are predominantly geared towards the male clientele. In some pubs they may also be a skittle alley and shove-ha'penny tables - found mostly in Southern England I believe....and of course individual tables and chairs, often quite basic but not invariably, for people to sit down and sup and chomp on crisps or salted peanuts or whatever, or even meals ordered at the bar itself behind which, or alongside which, may be a blackboard on which the current menu is displayed or else a menu placed on the bar top, and then the nosh is brought directly to them by the kitchen staff, or if you're especially favoured - the landlord/landlady him/herself. These bars are usually horrendously noisy...

Then there are the lounge bars - more cosy and comfortable than the male-oriented public bars - easy armchairs quite often - usually placed nearer the fireplaces which, in winter especially, blaze away when piled up with logs....and of course with chairs and tables for those wishing to eat and do not wish to use the separate restaurant which many pubs also provide.

The lounge bars are usually used by both genders for a good chat, social interaction and general relaxation over drinks. The lounge bar is also the place many people usually go to conduct business affairs or maybe even illicit affairs of the heart; it can also be the place where work colleagues go for after work, or lunchtime, socialising, or to hold leaving parties for people moving on to other employment, birthday or engagement celebration parties or whatever excuse people can find for having a good time in a congenial atmosphere where they can relax and enjoy a pint of whatever takes your fancy, a G&T, a bacardi and coke, a nip of witches brew, a whisky and whatever, a Pimms, a vodka and whatever, or whatever whatever is your own particular poison....

In short there is nothing quite like the British pub anywhere else in the world.....it is pretty well unique. Other countries in the English speaking world have tried desperately to replicate the British pub - but it never really works out - apparently none of them are quite like the "real thing" - their atmosphere and aura can never be the same as those in Britain, even those set up, managed and patronised by the many expat Brits in Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, Greece, Cyprus and even the United States......they have the sun but not the true atmosphere, and a load of pissed up, over-tanned geriatric expat Brits just have to make the best of what's on offer to them in their sunkissed adopted countries of residence.

In America they don't call their drinking dens "pubs" as such - and these are very different from the pubs I've described above. The places over there are not the hubs of social interaction in anything like the way ours are over here in the UK.....they are totally different by all accounts. People either go there to drown sorrows, sit on tall stools at the bar and brood - or to seek a sexual partner. ;-0

I was jesting about the entire UK going out on the lash tonight - the start of the weekend, but it's guaranteed that a sizeable section of the population will, me included, but as I said before I know my limits. Although I work in a profession well known for its considerable alcohol intake I do not follw the pattern, and I simply wouldn't choose to join groups of people who regularly set out to get as hammered as they possibly can - it's just insane. I love the atmosphere of the average British pub and club but why ruin it by getting totally blootered?

If you don't want to personally see it in action for yourself on the late night streets of urban Britain come the weekends especially but would really, really like to know what it's like then simply tune into the TV channels showing Police reality shows such as Street Wars, Road Wars, Cops in Action etc.
far from Bovina   Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:41 pm GMT
<<ROFL! I don't like the taste of alcohol, either, but for some reason, I'm shy about admitting it.>>

I also don't like the taste of Alcohol, so I just don't drink. Same with cigarettes, coffee, and carbonated drinks, so I don't use them ether.

BTW, Bovina NY is still a dry town (but that may be about to change).
Rene   Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:43 pm GMT
The drinking age of 21 is a federal law, so yes, it applies to all states. It's sort of left over from when the voting age was also 21. That changed in the 70's, but the drinking age stayed the same and for the foreseeable future will remain.

Damian, thanks for the info. I wrote a screenplay set in the US and had to switch it over to Britain. The biggest problem was a single bar scene which I wasn't quite sure how to convert since in the oringinal draft it was set in a really sleezy bar- drunks doing their best at overly loud Kenny Chesney karaoke, vinyl stools, cobwebs in the corners, CHEAP exotic (but not topless) dancers, etc. I couldn't quite figure out what to do with this very important scene and I'm still not satisfied with it.
Beathag   Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:52 pm GMT
>>I can understand that some people dislike alcohol simply for its taste or its effects but i solemnly hope that you exclude yourselves from social situations in which it is being consumed, i've seen your type those who never take a sip because they wish to maintain the pristine image and sense of superiority.<<

Hey, I don't hang out in bars. When I go, it's because my friends make me. That's where they want to hang. It just about the only place to go in my crap town besides the movies, bowling, or hanging out at the local Walmart.
The music is lousy and way too damn loud, I don't like the taste or smell of alcohol and not because I wish to maintain a "pristine" image or feel superior (after all, my friends do drink), and everyone smokes!
It's not a win/win situation man. If you keep refusing to go, then your friends get pissed with all the rejection and start to feel like you disapprove by not going. But if you do and have a lousy time and don't want to smoke or drink, people still think that you're somehow judging.
It's all very self-conscious.
Just respect people, I do.

>>Britain students are forced to use microsoft word these days because thats what the schools buy, teachers no longer want to trawl through pages of unique handwriting and prefer typed work, oh and have you ever had to write about 3 plays in an hour making comparisons between them as you go, well the need to express yourself overwrites the need to express yourself in precise grammatical order. as for the computer stuff i am sorry to say that i pale in comparrison to the programming genius that you are. I must admit i am unable to create a program that would rival microsoft, but as you allready must have taken your own advice and become that fabled computer genius you can tell me how to do it.<<

There is a spell checker on my Microsoft Word for BrE. Don't see why you wouldn't have it as well. Figure it out.

>>Oh yes the americans are very good are not showing the world thier negative side aren't they. That countries history is plagued with dispicable acts, Hiroshima, Vietnam, The Middle East, Gang violence, Racism, Drug culture and the Recession. thier isn't a continent that hasn't known some of thier bad things. I also wish to point out the falseness of that idiotic cliche "That American saved us in World War 2" american intervention would have been inevitable and they never seem to mention that it was Russian forces who suffered the most throughout that war and ultimately weakened germany the most <<

The same could have been said for Britian once (about despicable acts that touched several continents). Hiroshima- saved American lives. We just don't see things like you guys do in some aspects. Maybe you are more "evolved". My state strongly believes in capital punishment, and I guess I too have a sense of "an eye for an eye".
Nobody wanted to fight in Vietnam! It wasn't a popular war! You are going to blame the American masses for that!? My father was treated like scum when he came home from that war.
I won't even get started on the Middle East because it's just stupid. Uphill battle and all that.
Gang violence- funny, that's an international thing and not just an "American" thing.
Racism- not like it was invented here. Every country suffers from it, whether they admit it or not. It's terrible, but it's everywhere. Everywhere. Saying that doesn't make it ok and it doesn't excuse it. But that is not solely "American" either.
Drug culture- not even touching that one.
Finally, the recession. Don't play the blame game. As it is, we do fault ourselves on this one. But even with us starting it, all the blame is not to be put on us. A certain bit of blame should go on each countries' shoulders. The ‘mark-to-market’ rule that was pushed by EU financial ministers for years, led to all kinds of problems that hastened the crash, etc.
You have a lot of anger from Microsoft. :-P
Jasper   Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:11 pm GMT
Damian: "American Bible Belt - the word Purgatory comes to mind right now! "

Damian, I grew up in the Bible Belt in the 60s and 70s. It was a lot like growing up in a Communist country in that it was very repressive, but very safe and secure. (No one ever locked their doors at night.)

It was a time and place where imbibing of any sort was deeply frowned upon. Probably Beathag is the only person who will believe me, but I swear to you it's the truth: I to this day have never seen my parents, who're still alive, touch a single drop to drink in their lives. As strange as it might seem to a European, there are a lot of people like that in the Bible Belt!

GREGOR: it's not that I'm actively condemning alcohol consumption, it's just that I don't like the stuff!
K. T.   Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:37 pm GMT
Is your last name Edinburgh or London...
Jasper   Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:41 pm GMT
GREGORVICH: "o the people who deny themselve drink "

Deny ourselves? lol!

It's easy to deny ourselves of something that tastes nasty. I'd personally just as soon drink a glass of buttermilk as to drink alcohol...;)

The real difficulty is trying to force ourselves to drink, to make other people around us happy. Now that I'm over 40, I'm not drinking alcohol for anybody.
K. T.   Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:47 pm GMT
Dear Miss Logan,

Damien Edinburgh or Damien London (now known as Lysander)
didn't appreciate your fine teaching (even though he writes pretty well now afaik, but I'm an American and wouldn't know good writing from chicken scratch...). He referred to you as a "Tartar" (and that distracts me terribly as I think about Steak Tartare and then wonder if it has an "e" on the end and whether eating beef is advisable in the UK and...)
Beathag   Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:54 pm GMT
>>Damian, I grew up in the Bible Belt in the 60s and 70s. It was a lot like growing up in a Communist country in that it was very repressive, but very safe and secure. (No one ever locked their doors at night.)

It was a time and place where imbibing of any sort was deeply frowned upon. Probably Beathag is the only person who will believe me, but I swear to you it's the truth: I to this day have never seen my parents, who're still alive, touch a single drop to drink in their lives. As strange as it might seem to a European, there are a lot of people like that in the Bible Belt!<<

The Bible Belt is still that way mostly. My parents do not lock the house or the cars. Heck, they don't even know where the house keys are! :-)
And you are spot on about the drinking Jasper! I believe it.
K. T.   Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:32 pm GMT
Sorry, it's Damian, not Damien.

I was told that my father drank a beer with my grandfather, didn't see it.

I saw my mother take a sip of wine (a tiny sip) with her sister once. That's it.

My brother told me that he tried some wine, and liked wine coolers on rare occasions (probably when free at a function...)
Rapp   Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:37 pm GMT
There is not a federal law specifying the drinking age in the US. When I entered university {mumble} years ago, the drinking age in my state was 18. That's what it was in most states, thought there were a few that set it at 19 and a few more at 21.

What happened, though, is that the federal government coerced the states by threatening to withhold federal highway funds from any states that didn't raise their drinking age to 21. None of them wanted to lose what amounted to millions of dollars, so they all changed. That was in 1985-86, if I recall correctly.