Is English English comtamined by American English?

KT   Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:08 am GMT
This is an interesting except on this matter taken from "Origins of the Specious" by Patricia O’Conner:


We don't have to look hard to find the answer, and many apologetic Americans may be surprised to hear it. Professor William A. Read, a distinguished linguist, put it this way in a journal of philology: "The pronunciation of educated Americans is in many respects more archaic than that of educated Englishmen." This should be no surprise, he said, since "the phonetic basis of American pronunciation rests chiefly on the speech of Englishmen of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries." And those Englishmen sounded much like the Americans of today. The "English accent" that we now associate with educated British speech is a relatively new phenomenon and didn't develop until after the American Revolution.

Look at the way the letter r is pronounced (or not pronounced), perhaps the most important difference in the speech of educated people in the US and the UK. Since Anglo-Saxon days, the English had pronounced the r in words like "far," "mother," "world," "church," and "mourn." English speakers on both sides of the Atlantic pronounced the r's in these words when the Colonies broke away from England. Most Americans still do. But educated people in Britain began dropping their r's in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. The Americans most likely to drop their r's were those, like New Englanders, who had strong commercial and social ties with the mother country.

This dropping of r's in Britain ?didn't happen all of a sudden, and the sticklers of the day ?didn't take it lying down. "The perception that the language was 'losing a letter' was a cause of profound upset to some writers," the linguist David Crystal has written. The poet Keats, for example, was cruelly upbraided by critics for rhyming "thoughts" with "sorts," and "thorns" with "fawns." Lord Byron blamed a critical article for hastening Keats's death in 1821: "'Tis strange the mind, that very fiery particle, / Should let itself be snuffed out by an Article." But by the time Keats died, the dropped r was a standard feature of educated British pronunciation.

The other letter that's a dead giveaway in telling a Brit from a Yank is the a in a word like "past." We all know how an American would say it — with an a like the one in "cat." And as anyone who's watched Masterpiece Theatre can tell you, the standard British pronunciation is PAHST. But it wasn't always so. The Brits used to say it the same way Americans do now. Here again, the Americans stuck with an old way of speaking, one the British abandoned about the same time they dropped their r's.

The a, like the r, has ping-ponged in British pronunciation. Until the 1500s, the English did indeed pronounce words like "bath" and "laugh" and "dance" with an "ah." But in the sixteenth century they began pronouncing the a in what we now consider the American way (as in "cat"). So things remained for the next two or three hundred years. This is the a that went to America on the Mayflower in 1620. And this is the a that both the Redcoats and the Colonists used during the Revolutionary War. Not until the 1780s did Londoners begin pronouncing their a's like "ahs" again, and for a few decades the broad a and the short a battled it out. But by the early 1800s, educated Britain was saying BAHTH and LAHF and DAHNCE.

That's also about when literate Britons started pronouncing the h in "herb." Before the nineteenth century, both the English and Americans pronounced it ERB. In fact, the word was usually spelled "erbe" for the first few hundred years after it was borrowed from the Old French erbe in the 1200s. The h was added later as a nod to the Latin original (herba, or grass), but the letter was silent. Today, Americans pronounce "herb" the way Shakespeare did, with a silent h, while the Bard wouldn't recognize the word in the mouths of the English.

Speaking of aitches, some British speakers, especially on the telly, use "an" before words like "historic" or "hotel," and some Anglophiles over here are slavishly imitating them. For shame! Usage manuals on both sides of the Atlantic say the article to use is "a," not "an." The rule is that we use "a" before a word that begins with an h that's pronounced and "an" before a word that starts with a silent h. And dictionaries in both Britain and the United States say the h should be pronounced in "historic" and "hotel" as well as "heroic," "habitual," "hypothesis," "horrendous," and some other problem h-words.
Time is Money   Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:13 am GMT
The reason why the American influence (media, food, slang, etc) is perceived as Cancer, is because everything American is commercial crap with no real value, sufocating the the entire world, and expanding just like cancer.
Swami Anandananda   Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:30 am GMT
It's Kali-Yuga. Nothing can be done.
Damian London N22   Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:33 am GMT
The last posting was a bit unfair! Of course, over commercialism American style can be a wee bit nauseating at times (maybe we Europeans tend to be a little "superior and snobbish?") but let's face it - most of us here in the so called "West" (even Eastern Europe is now turning "Western Europe" at an ever increasing rate of knots - half of them seemed to have been here in the UK anyway in the last couple of years or so) but just look around at any British High Street in any British town and city.....Macdonalds, KFC, Starbucks, Coffee Republic......all of them seem to be very well patronised most of the time.

And many British women just love watching those dire American TV chat shows in which almost exclusively female audiences and almost exclusively female mega feminist "guests" loudly and very passionately dismember and disembowel and disenfranchise the downtrodden seemingy castrated American male of the species........poor saps! Now it's happening here in Britland, too.....but I care not...I'm happily immune! Gott sei dank!
gregorvitch   Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:50 pm GMT
yes america's influence is felt nationwide but alas that is the hand that britain was dealt, had germany not been so agressive maybe it would be our little isle that would have spread itself over the world but no we latched on to america and didnt let go and in return we inherited all of thier traits.

Uriel

the average english brain isnt split into the proper way of saying things and that slur speech you tend to use, it is the children who are growing up with this verbal diohrrea thanks to thier submergence in american culture another byproduct of your greedy capitalism
yankie doodle   Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:20 pm GMT
Again Uriel you highlight how pathetically ignorant you are.

Ok, you are clearly a bit thick so let's start all over again.

You say that IF the English do not like American English (and our own apparent Americanisation) then WHY continue to copy it?

That is the point that you have missed isn't it!

Firstly, IF you actually read my post you would have seen that I said that there was nothing wrong with American English, just that I can't believe the English gave in to Americanisation so easily ( and they really have).

Do you actually realise how human beings learn languages??? From birth, do you have any idea how they pick things up?? You do?? Ok, so then you will realise, if you can even remotely grasp this, that the absolute domination of American media, be it the telly, the radio or literature, has something to do with why young Britons are now walking around talking like they are out of Friends or something. That's right, knowing how Humans learn languages you will realise that the English do not even know it is happening, they are not making a CONCIOUS decision to speak American but rather that they are so exposed to American English that they are just simply picking it up.

Can you understand what I just said to you?? I haven' said America is the devil or that it is one big conspiracy - merely that England is being completely Americanised and that I understand why. Got it?? And by understanding what I have said you will also then realise that the GENERAL British public really have no idea of how Americanised they are becoming - apart from a few.

Now, why my fellow Britons allowed this to happen is what pees me off - as I said - I can't believe they gave in so easy.

For example, is the government and or bookmakers (or whoever the hell decides that it is ok to simply supply American books in their American form to students, the paying public etc) so bloody lazy and clueless as to just how big an influence on how that English reader will learn/spell a word?? Or do they simply not care????

This is just an example. I will say that all of the American editions of English books that I have ever come across have all been Americanised to American standard spelling. Now why is this?? Can American's really not understand and appreciate (even enjoy) the differences?? The fact that their government (or whoever) thinks that they can't speak volumes. But the fact that they feel the need to change the spellings is actually, for me, a good thing. They should do that here aswell, but they don't - and I just don't see why.

Anyway, fool yourself if want that I am just another Briton moaning about Americanisation just for the sake of it if you wish, but I assure you that it does have meaning. But you don't live here and so you do not know. Sure, most people couldn't give a monkies, but I for one think that the preservation of a language (no matter how similar) is pretty important. And it is.
Jasper   Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:49 pm GMT
"The reason why the American influence (media, food, slang, etc) is perceived as Cancer, is because everything American is commercial crap with no real value, sufocating the the entire world, and expanding just like cancer"

The odd thing here is that I, an American, agree with you about the corrupting influence of Corporate America. My biggest beef is the commercialization of food, leaving us with plastic food that fails to sate and ever-expanding waistlines.

But what can be done about it? As long as there are people--either Americans or Europeans--who are willing to buy these goods, the situation seems impossible to fix.
Travis   Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:25 pm GMT
I myself too despise much of American commercial "popular culture", and not just its influence outside the US but rather at home here. However, the thing is that many people outside the US and Canada make the major mistake of confusing such with actual English-speaking North American culture, when in reality American commercial "popular culture" is in many ways quite distinct from such. This is because this is what is marketed to the rest of the world, rather than actual English-speaking North American culture, which is almost certainly not nearly as well-known outside North America.
Uriel   Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:36 am GMT
<<Again Uriel you highlight how pathetically ignorant you are.

<<Ok, you are clearly a bit thick so let's start all over again.

You say that IF the English do not like American English (and our own apparent Americanisation) then WHY continue to copy it?

That is the point that you have missed isn't it!

Do you actually realise how human beings learn languages??? From birth, do you have any idea how they pick things up?? You do?? Ok, so then you will realise, if you can even remotely grasp this, that the absolute domination of American media, be it the telly, the radio or literature, has something to do with why young Britons are now walking around talking like they are out of Friends or something. That's right, knowing how Humans learn languages you will realise that the English do not even know it is happening, they are not making a CONCIOUS decision to speak American but rather that they are so exposed to American English that they are just simply picking it up. >>

I'm thick and you're unconscious? Okay! I'll bite.

You're full of shit. People do NOT "unconsciously" pick up slang without realizing that they're doing it. The first time you hear unfamiliar slang, you are VERY conscious of it, because it sounds odd, and that strikes you right away. You then DECIDE whether or not you want to play. If enough people decide they do, because it sounds cool or unusual, then it becomes common. That novelty factor means that slang BEGS to be introduced and updated constantly. Which means that it is all the more likely that it will be taken from a remote source, like another country or culture, rather than from the same old stuff people have been saying for centuries. That's why slang goes in cycles and becomes passe after a few years -- people always want something fresh. So complaining that your language is changing is missing the point that people are always looking for ways to evolve it anyway. It's not simple exposure. They're not passive victims. Americans get exposed to British terms, too, but we don't pick them up and incorporate them en masse into our speech because they aren't cool. They were once upon a time, but now we've found a different source. OUR current source of cool is black urban speech. Sorry! Would you like me to rail against that culture? Of course not. It's not acceptable to hate on black people. It IS, however, perfectly acceptable to despise Americans and bemoan any influence from them. (While, of course, watching our movies and eating our food and using that same recycled black slang years later, after it's filtered across the Atlantic.)
Rene   Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:34 am GMT
Yankie doodle-

Well gal-darn son, my thick Yankee brain just can't put together what you're on about. If only they'd put a few extra "u's in the books at school, I'd have got me some proper learning.
yankie doodle   Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:46 am GMT
Uriel - why do you, for some reason keep on assuming that my posts are anti-American?

Because I dislike the almost complete whitewash of my native language I am some how anti-American?? How is that exactly?? Please explain this? I am not anti-American in the least but very anti-Americanisation. There is a difference!! I do not need to explain that any further. If your backward mind cannot grasp the simplicity of why someone would be unhappy with the loss of much of their culture and language to another then I am never going to get through. It doesn't matter to me if it were French, Australian English or whatever but you clearly have a chip on your shoulder and I think that nothing I will say will change that.

Uriel, your post focuses on much American slang that is being picked up by Britons - why?? Where in my post did I say anything about slang??? Please point this out???

What I am talking about is the Americanisation of British English in all its forms - pronunciation, diction as well as written.

I just can't believe that the powers that be didn't do more to protect our own language. I am not averse to picking up new phrases from a language which helps benefit it but the replacing of most of the British terms with American ones serve absolutely no purpose what so ever.

Now you are not a dumb person, I do apologise for saying so but how you can say that the learning of a language is not passive is incredible. The next time my sister says "my bad" for example, I will stop and ask her why she chose to use that phrase instead of "my fault". I will ask whether she sat there, thought about the word because it sounded odd, and then made a conscious decision that it was cool and then decided to use it!

AGAIN Uriel you have missed the point!!! American slang or American English in general DOESN'T sound odd to us - because we are so exposed to it!!! So for you to say that shows how little you realise as to just how much the British are coming across American English - all the time.

When I was a kid, American English did indeed sound strange (and wonderful). I couldn't understand why you lot would call a person "a bum" or refer to someone’s arse as "ass" or why you would call girls "guys" etc etc, but I loved the difference of it all and intrigued me. This was because we didn't have digital telly with it's hundred's of channels (showing largely American programmes), the internet and all that stuff. We had four channels which showed very little American stuff and so, save a programme or two plus perhaps a film here or there, American English wasn't really come across enough to have a dramatic impact (but it was having some impact I am sure). Now of course, American media is so dominant that Americanisation has sped up and is speeding up.

When I pronounce many words the English way (or what was traditionally the English way) I am almost always asked to repeat what I have just said and many times am mocked or questioned as to why I just said the word the way I just said it. For example when I say words such as 'schedule', 'privacy', 'lieutenant', 'mall' etc eyebrows are raised. Actually, a mate asked me whether he wanted to go to the mall!! Bloody hell!! Firstly it isn't a mall but a shopping centre and secondly it is pronounced to rhyme with pal not Paul!! I pointed this out but alas it fell on deaf ears. I am not saying shopping centre is more correct or what have you but just that that is out term for it and it is no less ‘un-cool’ than the American alternative.

Oh, and how can you say that you are exposed to British English but choose NOT to use it?? But rather you decide to use influences such as Black American English?? That is silly, I mean how can you compare the amount of exposure of American’s to British English in comparison to American English??? You lot are not exposed to British English nearly enough for it to have any big impact, and certainly no where near as much as you are Black American English.

And how can you say British English is UN-COOL?????? No it isn’t!!!! I could go on and on and on with examples. Actually, I feel as if I already have. Adieu.
Pro Cultura   Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:49 am GMT
Man honestly I’ve got nothing against American people, what it bothers me is the Corporate America or the Commercial States of America exporting waste.

All you export is cheap junk and bad for you,
From a European perspective, The US TV shows we see outside the US are shocking crazy circus! The other Fast-food that just open across the road is another US mission. The International News are full of American Pro-War shit, and the Movies we see are just full of lowlife and brainwashing American propaganda.

So how the hell on earth you expect the Rest of the World to respect or admire America and American Culture after all this negative influence you have on this planet?

The bible says in Matthew 7:20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits"
cockaholic   Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:53 am GMT
<<or example, is the government and or bookmakers (or whoever the hell decides that it is ok to simply supply American books in their American form to students, the paying public etc) so bloody lazy and clueless as to just how big an influence on how that English reader will learn/spell a word?? Or do they simply not care????>>


I'm American and as it happens I have ended up using a lot of BRITISH versions of textbooks. I buy them second hand and as far as I can tell there is no fucking difference apart from a few 'u's. To waste money to print a whole different version is pretty stupid and no business is going to screw themselves over in the name of preserving the British culture which consists of nothing other than a few extra 'u's. I think the fact that you anal Brits are so obsessed with your 'u's is a good indicator of just how hopelessly Americanized you REALLY are, beyond your wildest fantasies, you are desperately clinging to the only thing left in a desperate bid to set yourselves apart from your masters. It's too late! If a couple 'u s is all that's left to preserve of your culture then you already lost the battle a long, long time ago my friend.
blanc   Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:01 am GMT
wow! do you read books in America?
yankie doodle   Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:05 am GMT
You can't even begin to understand how annoying and frustrating it is to be an Englishman living in England and speaking (English) English in and yet be corrected on the fact that you are not pronouncing the word right - even though you are and they are the ones who are saying it wrong (from a purely British perspective of course!!)

Pees me off!