Is English English comtamined by American English?

A Mate   Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:13 am GMT
Mate, what you dont understand is, Britain does not have a body regulating the British English language. Something like almost every European country has. For example the french academy, is the language regulator of the french language.

Your British government is to blame for not instituting a British linguistic academy. However there is an unofficial language regulator, The BBC. Well i dont think is a good ideea to let the Metia and TV to regulate you British english.

That is why in Britain you have one million dialects and accents, because you do not have an official regulated British accent and no British linguistic Academy
Shuimo   Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:57 am GMT
The Brits themselves are solely to blame for the contamination of ENglish English by American English, if they consider the penetration of American English into ENglish English is monstrous!

Uncle Sam never says: Hey, little Englanders, you have to follow American suit, or I wud kill you!

Little Brits are just crying babies! They never learn to pick faults with themslves! All they do daily is to complain and complain how they are mistreated by other peoples! The linguistic complaint is just one of many cases in point! Just check their monstrous complaints about everything that displeasures them here at this fantastic forum:


http://europa.eu/debateeurope/future/index_en.htm
Damian London E14   Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:19 pm GMT
***Little Brits are just crying babies! They never learn to pick faults with themslves!***

Ermmm....dear friend Shuimo....happily ensconced for him/her just about as far from the country s/he so obviously loathes as it's possible to get before embarking on the return journey......I'm a Little Brit (literally) I think you will find from some of my recent posts that I have done a pretty good job in "picking faults" with a fair number of my compatriots.

In fact, finding fault with ourselves is quite a pastime with us Brits - often quite unjustifiably. That really is true - we tend to be negative when we should be positive, we place undue emphasis on our flaws, while glossing over all our good points. Some other nationalities do quite the opposite, which can either be a good thing, or a not so good thing...probably the former, because I reckon it does make you <feel> better inside yourself if you think you are better than your really are!

The American writer Bill Bryson, who has now lived in the UK for quite a long time, is constantly bleating on about his frustration with the British who, in his opinion, constantly place far too much emphasis on all the negatives about our lot as a nation, and ignoring the many positives.

Anyway, Shuimo, nobody is ever going to <force> you to visit a country you hold in such high contempt are they? Just be grateful about that! Cheers!
Rene   Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:29 pm GMT
To wish that the British government would regulate English seems a little... out there. The US refuses to even declare a national language, much less become the watch-dogs of how we do speak.

We are taught proper grammar in school of course, but there were so many Spanish-only speaking students at my school I was forced to take bi-lingual classes. Immigrants here do not have to learn the language as they do in Britain, so at least be grateful for that.
eeuuian   Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:14 pm GMT
<<Little Brits are just crying babies! They never learn to pick faults with themslves!>>

Here's a forum filled with (typical?) UK pessimism and fault-finding:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/
Kaeops   Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:00 pm GMT
Nope, English English is contaminated by Cockney and Estuary.
American Jerk   Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:12 pm GMT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9dn1HhYXpE

Britain has great things like the BBC.
Damian Bishops Stortford   Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:59 pm GMT
I see that the weird looking Diane Prissy was standing in that very steep, cobbled street in Shaftesbury, Dorset, England when she presented her "BBC TV report"....most people in Britain recognise it as the backdrop for the Hovis bread TV advertisement for which it became nationally famous. The countryside in the background is a typical Thomas Hardy landscape, the setting for most of his Wessex novels - Wessex being the origiginal name for that region of South West England.

I do hope that the non-Brits amongst us here don't think that the characters in this YT clip are genuine BBC presenters! The real ones are much funnnier, even more bizarre........
Jasper   Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:20 pm GMT
DAMIAN: "In fact, finding fault with ourselves is quite a pastime with us Brits - often quite unjustifiably. That really is true - we tend to be negative when we should be positive, we place undue emphasis on our flaws, while glossing over all our good points"

Damian, this statement strongly supports your theory as to the reasons British immigrants to the States complain so much—a phenomenon discussed in a long-ago thread...
corrado   Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:19 pm GMT
Yes, it is
Uriel   Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:05 pm GMT
<<Uriel - why do you, for some reason keep on assuming that my posts are anti-American?>>

I don't. I mostly assume that you are very anti-me.

<<Because I dislike the almost complete whitewash of my native language I am some how anti-American?? How is that exactly?? Please explain this?>>

Because you use words like "whitewash", perhaps?

<<I am not anti-American in the least but very anti-Americanisation. There is a difference!! I do not need to explain that any further. If your backward mind cannot grasp the simplicity of why someone would be unhappy with the loss of much of their culture and language to another then I am never going to get through. It doesn't matter to me if it were French, Australian English or whatever but you clearly have a chip on your shoulder and I think that nothing I will say will change that.>>


Actually, you are the one with the chip on YOUR shoulder. You are the one who came out swinging, and throwing ad hominem attacks in my direction, calling me stupid and ignorant. If you're going to be an asshole, I'm going to treat you with the disdain and disrespect you deserve and obviously crave. People like you go on the offensive because you enjoy picking a fight and being the antagonist. I'm playing along.

<<Uriel, your post focuses on much American slang that is being picked up by Britons - why?? Where in my post did I say anything about slang??? Please point this out???>>

Sure. 99% of American and British English is utterly identical. I can read your whole post without noticing any real deviations in grammar or vocabulary from the way I would put it -- as is the case with almost all posts by the British, Irish, Australians, and New Zealanders that I've read. It is mainly when people use colloquialisms or slang that you can spot regional differences -- the standard language conveys little to give away a poster's identity. And it is those words and phrases that tend to be associated with a particular "other" identity, like American.

<<...how you can say that the learning of a language is not passive is incredible. The next time my sister says "my bad" for example, I will stop and ask her why she chose to use that phrase instead of "my fault".>>

...And here we are, back to slang. I remember the first time *I* heard "my bad". I thought it sounded stupid. I didn't use it. And it did take me a long time to start using it, and it made me feel a little self-conscious. (And of course, now it's pretty passe, and I don't hear it much anymore.) All new slang does that -- partially because it's unusual, and partially because you have to learn how to use it correctly and appropriately so you don't make yourself sound like an idiot. It's not an unconscious thing at all -- you have to pay close attention, because slang has a lot of social baggage attached to it.

<<What I am talking about is the Americanisation of British English in all its forms - pronunciation, diction as well as written. >>

I doubt it, since American pronunciations usually themselves stem from some original British source. Northerners and Irish people, for example, still use the short "cat' A in words like glass and pass, and there are rhotic dialects in the UK as well. The most we might be doing is reintroducing some of your own variations back to you.

Or perhaps the Canadians are to blame. They sound oddly like us, and have stronger ties to you....perhaps you are pointing all this invective in the wrong direction?

<<Oh, and how can you say that you are exposed to British English but choose NOT to use it?? But rather you decide to use influences such as Black American English?? That is silly, I mean how can you compare the amount of exposure of American’s to British English in comparison to American English??? You lot are not exposed to British English nearly enough for it to have any big impact, and certainly no where near as much as you are Black American English.>>

How much time does your average American spend in Compton or Watts? Precious little, but for whatever reason, the slang ends up making the rounds, whether most of the users really have any contact with the original sources or not. I'm guessing virtually every average American has seen a few British movies and watched some British TV or YouTube offerings. Your music is big, your actors and actresses are household names here. We've all watched cable and satellite TV and YouTubed and sat through MTV and VH1. Probably infinitely more times than we've been to the hood. And yet, which one sticks? It's not about sheer number of exposure opportunities, it's about which ones grab you.

<<And how can you say British English is UN-COOL?????? >>

I didn't say it was uncool. I said it wasn't OUR source of cool. Ours is urban black culture, and has been since at least the 20's, when swing and jazz first started going mainstream.

Prior to that, the UK WAS a major source of cool, going so far as to influence the accents of New England and the coastal south. You can even hear vestiges of an artificially anglicized theatrical accent in American movies of the 30's and 40's, which definitely spoke to the higher prestige of the English accent. But it died out as it was replaced by the cultural shifts of the rock and roll era with its roots in black rhythm and blues, the emergence of a distinct teenage identity, and the uncanny ability of emulated black speech to infuriate parents and other authority figures. And because black musical culture has continued to reinvent itself through the decades and remains fresh and vibrant and new from one incarnation to the next, it still maintains a disproportionate and wildly powerful hold on the popular consciousness, that other sources -- like UK pop culture -- can't compete with.
blanc   Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:07 pm GMT
I Thank god everyday I'm not American! You guys must take a lot of crap from the rest of the world. But this thing will change when your country will mature and will stop atacking third world countries.
A Statian   Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:17 pm GMT
They started first!!!
Jasper   Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:40 pm GMT
URIEL: "You can even hear vestiges of an artificially anglicized theatrical accent in American movies of the 30's and 40's, which definitely spoke to the higher prestige of the English accent. But it died out as it was replaced by the cultural shifts of the rock and roll era with its roots in black rhythm and blues...."

I'd wondered why the teaching of Mid-Atlantic English died out, Uriel. Thank you for your illuminating post.
Uriel   Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:46 am GMT
<<Thank god everyday I'm not American! You guys must take a lot of crap from the rest of the world. But this thing will change when your country will mature and will stop atacking third world countries. >>

It's mostly amusing when people try to shit on us. I've been on international forums long enough that it's just a yawn -- same old tired stereotypes, same old piffly attempts to get a rise. It's been years since I've heard any insults that were actually new and exciting. You guys need to work harder on your originality and delivery.



<<I'd wondered why the teaching of Mid-Atlantic English died out, Uriel. Thank you for your illuminating post. >>

You'll notice that in earlier movies, the leads all had these bizarre semi-British accents, while the bit characters spoke normally. But somewhere along the way that dichotomy began to die out. I think partially it was because a taste for realism began to take precedence over stageyness in both the film industry and with the audiences. But the changes in society had to have played a huge role, too.

You see a major change in clothing at this point, too. The accent was just part of the package. The ladies all started out perfectly made up and coiffed, in expensive-looking dresses and jewelry, even when they were doing nothing but answering the door or going out to lunch. And unless they sang at a nightclub, they didn't seem to have anything productive to do all day. And yet they were all made of money. Even if they were housewives, some cook or maid or nanny did all the real work (usually with a real accent). The men all had jobs, but they were suitably white collar, and they were just as neatly turned out as the women, in suits and ties and hats. And yet had plenty of time for adventures and romance and singing and dancing and train rides and what have you.

Now I know people really were more formal back then, but I suspect there was a certain amount of fairy-tale escapism at work here -- people went to the movies to see glamour, not grit.