Question for Americans about the "flap t"

Tom   Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:27 pm GMT
Hi,

I am researching the "flap t" sound in American English and I would like to ask Americans how they feel about some pronunciations.

Clarification:
- "flap t" is the voiced consonant pronounced e.g. in "better". It sounds like a quickly pronounced "d".
- "normal t" is the "t" sound in "Tom"

Question:
For each of the following words and phrases, does it strike you as weird/careless/incorrect (specify which) when you hear it pronounced with a "flap t"? Any other comments are welcome.

Audio sample (with flap t):
http://www.antimoon.com/temp/flap-t-sample.mp3

debating
photographer
dentist
don't answer
carpenter
eager to help
faculty
been terrific
star together
alter
happy together
free Tibet
first "t" in "had a Toyota"
Baltimore
second "t" in "certainty"
rougher terrain
altar
dogmatism

Thank you for your help!
K. T.   Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:16 pm GMT
It doesn't play on my computer.
Leasnam   Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:28 pm GMT
Tom,

I am currently unable to listen to the recordings, but I can take from text.

debating - normal
photographer - odd
dentist - odd (not medial)
don't answer - normal
carpenter - odd (not medial)
eager to help - normal
faculty - odd
been terrific - odd
star together - normal
alter - odd
happy together - normal
free Tibet - odd
first "t" in "had a Toyota" - odd
Baltimore - odd
second "t" in "certainty" - odd
rougher terrain - odd
altar - odd
dogmatism - odd
JeffinNYC   Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:14 pm GMT
I agree with Leasnam for all the ones he gives normal for. In addition, I also think the flap sounds normal in carpenter, faculty, and certainty. The sound in dentist is more like the sound in penny (or twenty). I would definitely enunciate the t in been terrific. I'm from the rural South (East Texas) and I do not have a General American accent.

I think many Baltimore natives would say the name of their city with the flap, but Americans by and large would not.
Guest   Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:28 am GMT
I am from California and I agree with everything JeffinNYC said.
upstater   Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:09 am GMT
Listening to the mp3, the funniest-sounding ones were:

- free Tibet (sounded like "free to bet")
- had a Toyota (didn't make sense until I looked at the written form)
- rougher terrain
- been terrific
Uriel   Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:16 am GMT
Here's what I would give them, as an American speaker:


debating -- flap T
photographer -- normal T
dentist -- no first T
don't answer -- no T or glottal stop
carpenter -- flap T
eager to help -- flap T
faculty -- flap T
been terrific -- normal T
star together -- normal T or flap T
alter -- normal T
happy together -- flap or normal T
free Tibet -- normal T
first "t" in "had a Toyota" -- normal T
Baltimore -- normal T (but I am not from Baltimore!)
second "t" in "certainty" -- flap or normal T
rougher terrain -- normal T
altar -- normal T
dogmatism -- normal T

Substituting a flapped T where you would normally expect to hear a normal T definitely does sound odd, wrong, and makes it hard to understand what the speaker is actually saying, except in the examples where either is specified. However, a normal T can be substituted in all the flapped examples without compromising comprehension. Doesn't work the other way around, though.
K. T.   Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:36 am GMT
You don't say the first "t" in dentist, Uriel? I do. I know some people say it like "dennist"...
Leasnam   Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:43 am GMT
<<You don't say the first "t" in dentist, Uriel? I do. I know some people say it like "dennist"... >>

I do as well, but sometimes I'm sure I might say it flapped...maybe
socal guy   Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:36 am GMT
debating - normal
photographer - odd
dentist - odd (first t omitted here aswell)
don't answer - odd (would have glottal/no t)
carpenter - odd
eager to help - normal
faculty - odd
been terrific - odd
star together - normal
alter - odd
happy together - could use either (but favour unflapped)
free Tibet - odd
had a Toyota - odd
Baltimore - odd
certainty - odd
rougher terrain - odd
altar - odd
dogmatism - odd

that "had a Toyota" sure sounded strange
guest   Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:09 am GMT
Wow, that's a wanna-be American accent!
K. T.   Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:14 pm GMT
Leasnam,

Do you say "dennist" or "dentist"? I wasn't sure what you meant. Thanks.
Tom   Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:18 pm GMT
Thanks for all your answers, please keep them coming -- I am compiling them.
Leasnam   Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:23 pm GMT
<<Leasnam,
Do you say "dennist" or "dentist"? I wasn't sure what you meant. Thanks. >>

I say dentist, with a t :)
Entbark   Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:59 am GMT
debating - flap
photographer - normal
dentist - normal or no T at all
don't answer - glottal stop or no T at all
carpenter - flap
eager to help - flap or normal
faculty - normal
been terrific - normal
star together - normal or flap
alter - normal
happy together - normal or flap
free Tibet - normal
first "t" in "had a Toyota" - normal
Baltimore - normal
second "t" in "certainty" - normal or flap
rougher terrain - normal
altar - normal
dogmatism - normal