Francophone laziness: why Wallons and Vallounnes

Qwaggmireland   Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:49 pm GMT
Francophone laziness yields halfarsed translations of Germanic place names.

Why is the Francophone translation for Walloons - 'Wallon' rather than 'vallonne' or 'valloune' - these look and feel far more French-like.


Southern Belgium: Vallonne/Valloun = Walloon (Walha - foreigners of Germanics)


Flanders: Eglise de Doune / Doune Eglise = Dunkerque (Duinkerke)

*note another example of halfarsed French translating of foreign place names - why not 'eglise'?


Flanders: L'ile/Lile = Lille (Rijsel)

*note why the hell did Frenchifiers add an extra 'l' in L'ile (the island) Was it an attempt to make the French name look pusedo-nordic as in Lillehammer/Lillestrom?


Elsass: Etraceville/ Ville de Rue = Strasbourg (Strassburg)

*note also Elsass is Frenchified as Als'ace' so why not 'ace' has in 'Etrace + Ville (Burg) when translating Strasburg into French?


Elsass: Moulouse/Maison de Moulin = Mulhouse (Mulhausen)

*note the French half-yielding 'Mulhouse' is pronounced like 'Toulouse' (French nutter once used Mulhouse has an example to claim that Toulouse is a Visigoth Germanic place name from 'Tollhouse' !


Switzerland: Liberteville/Libreville = Fribourg (Friburg)

*note like in as happened to lots of Flemish land now Frenchified into Wallonia, Frenchification has done the same to former German lands of Switzerland especially the Canton of Wallis. Wouldn't it be more French to translate 'free' and 'burg' to Liberte and ville?


France/Normandy: L'arve/Larve = Le Harve

*note The French toungue cannot handle the staff 'h' It is not pronounced so why not the more French ringing and looking L'arve or Larve Why has the 'h' been left in?





On a lighter less swarthy note, why isn't the German town of 'Hamborn' be spelt 'Hahmmbohrnn' giving it more Germaness. Germans love adding extra wordstuff.

Bournemouth, England is one of the most waste-of-space spellings place names going. It would be better spelt 'Bornmouth'












.
No Comment   Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:59 pm GMT
Because French is a germanic leid. That's why
.   Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:02 pm GMT
"*note The French toungue cannot handle the staff 'h' "

in english its not called a staff. its "bookstave". they cant handle the bookstave h.
Qwaggmireland   Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:33 pm GMT
The Phrance tung cannot handle bookstave h.

Note L'arve/Larve should read L'avre and Lavre
Qwaggmireland   Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:43 pm GMT
How the hell can 'Ostend' be the French translation of Oostende! Is it the French using the English translation instead of something truly French like 'Bout l'est' Funny how next door to Oostende, English uses the French translation of 'Bruges' for Brugge. Due to it being the furthest from Valounia, is Ostend the least Frenchified translation of a place in Flanders?
encore   Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:38 pm GMT
<<Liste deutscher Bezeichnungen belgischer Orte,Wallonien>>

Arel: Arlon (nl: Aarlen)
Arelshofen: Arloncourt
Ansler (veraltet): Anliers
Attem (veraltet): Athus
Altenberg (veraltet): DG (fr: Vieille Montagne) (siehe Kelmis)
Altenhofen (veraltet): Viville
Alt-Habich (veraltet): Habay-la-Vieille
Altsalm (veraltet) Vielsalm
Außenborn (veraltet): Faymonville
Amel: DG (fr: Amblève)
Amel: Amblève (Fluss)
Ausderheiden (veraltet): Bruyères
Aldringen: DG (fr: Audrange)


Bardenburg (veraltet): Clairefontaine
Bastnach (veraltet): Bastogne (nl: Bastenaken)
Barnich: Barnich
Bergen: Mons (nl: Bergen)
Bebingen: Bébange
Bettenhofen (veraltet): Batticourt
Beierchen: Côte-Rouge
Beulen (veraltet): Bouillon
Bunnert (veraltet): Bonnert
Bochholz (veraltet): Beho
Bowies (veraltet): Bovigny
Bindelt: Boeur
Borzich: Bourcy
Bleiberg: Plombières (nl: Bleiberg)
Bolbach (veraltet): Bombaye (nl: Bolbeek)
Borgworm (veraltet): Waremme (nl: Borgworm)
Bödingen: Bodange
Bilstein (veraltet) Bilstain
Birelhof: Ferme Birel
Balen (veraltet): Baelen
Bernau (veraltet): Berneau
Brücken (veraltet): Pont
Büllingen: DG (fr: Bullange)
Bütgenbach: DG (fr: Butgenbach)
Büwingen: Buvange
Bürnenville (veraltet): Burnenville
Bindelt (veraltet): Benonchamps


Chantmill (veraltet): Chantemelle


Deutsch-Meer (auch Meisch, beide veraltet): Meix-le-Tige
Diedenburg (veraltet): Thiaumont
Deyfeld (veraltet): Deiffelt
Dreibrücken (veraltet): Trois-Ponts
Daelheim (veraltet): Dolhain


Eupen: DG (altfranzösisch: Néau)
Eikschen: Moresnet-Chapelle
Elcheroth (veraltet): Nobressart
Emburg (veraltet): Embourg
Emsong (veraltet): Musson
Engelsdorf (veraltet): Ligneuville
Eibertingen: DG Ebertange (veraltet)
Esch auf der Hurt: Aix-sur-Cloie


Fauweiler (auch Feiteler, beide veraltet): Fauvillers
Fels im Ösling (auch Welschenfels, beide veraltet): La Roche-en-Ardenne
Fischvenn (veraltet): Ovifat
Fröter (veraltet): Froidthier
Fascht: Faascht
Frassem :Frassem
Freilingen: Freylange


Galbach (veraltet): Jalhay
Guldorf (veraltet): Guelff
Gerlingen (veraltet): Guerlange
Geylich (veraltet): Gouvy
Girsch (veraltet): Guirsch
Gulken (veraltet): Goé (nl: Gulke)
Gomels: Commanster
Gringertz (veraltet): Champagne
Groß-Richheim (veraltet): Grand-Rechain
Grüfflingen: DG Grufflange
Greimelingen (veraltet): Grumelange


Hennegau: Hainaut (nl: Henegouwen)
Hewerdingen (veraltet): Habergy
Herzig (veraltet): Hachy
Holdingen (veraltet): Halanzy
Hollingen (veraltet): Hollange
Hondelingen (veraltet): Hondelange
Hotten: Hotte
Hanf (veraltet): Honville
Husingen (veraltet): Hussigny
Hauffletsch (veraltet): Houffalize
Heischlingen (veraltet): Heinsch
Homburg: Hombourg (nl: Homburg)
Heinrichskapelle (veraltet): Henri-Chapelle (nl: Hendriks-Kapelle)
Heverberg (veraltet): Hèvremont
Hedomont (veraltet): Hédômont
Hünningen: DG (fr: Hunnange)
Heistert: Heinstert

Ibingen (veraltet): Aubange
In der Bivelt (veraltet): Robertville
In der Spinnerei (veraltet): Outre-Warche


Katterwang: Quatre-Vents
Karolingen (veraltet): Charleroi
Klause (veraltet): La Clouse
Kelmis: DG (fr: La Calamine, nl: Kelmis)
Klein-Richeim (veraltet): Petit-Rechain
Kurtig: Courtil


Langwasser (auch Laser (veraltet)): Longeau
Lautermännchen (veraltet): Lutremange
Losingen (veraltet): Losange
Lüttich: Liège (nl: Luik, wa: Lîdje)
Luxemburg (Provinz) (älter auch Lützelburg): Luxembourg (nl: Luxemburg)
Lamerscher (veraltet): Limerlé
Limburg an der Weser (veraltet): Limbourg (nl: Limburg)
Liespelt (veraltet): Livarchamps
Lauterbach (veraltet): Lutrebois
Luchert: Louchert
*M [Bearbeiten]

Martelingen (veraltet): Martelange
Marienburg (veraltet): Mariembourg
Mark (veraltet): Marche-en-Famenne
Munerhof (veraltet): Menufontaine
Metzig (veraltet): Messancy
Mutzich (veraltet): Mussy-la-Ville
Michelshütte: Baraque Michel
Malmedy (älter auch: Malmünde)
Mürringen: DG Murrange
Moorbich (veraltet): Marvie
Mauer (veraltet): Mageret


Namen (veraltet): Namur (nl: Namen, wa: Nameur)
Neuenburg in Lützelburg (Luxemburg) (veraltet): Neufchâteau
Niedlingen: Noedlange
Nottem (veraltet): Nothomb
Niederelter (veraltet): Autelbas
Neu-Habich (veraltet): Habay-la-Neuve


Oberelter (veraltet): Autelhaut
Offen (veraltet): Fouches
Udler-Odeler-Udelar (veraltet): Oudler


Rachebruch (veraltet): Traquebois bei Feiteler (Fauvillers)
Resingen (veraltet): Rachecourt
Redel (veraltet): Radelange
Rödchen (veraltet): Ruette
Rotenberg (veraltet): Bernister
Rodenhof: Rodenhoff
Rosenberg: Rosenberg
Rüwert: Rouvray


Sankt Vith: DG (fr: Saint-Vith)
Stablo (veraltet): Stavelot
Sauerfeld (veraltet): Strainchamps
Saas (veraltet): Sampont
Saner (veraltet): Sainlez
Schockweiler (veraltet): Schockville
Schoffrä (veraltet): Xhoffraix
Schönenthal (veraltet): Bellevaux
Selingen (veraltet): Sélange
Sesbach (veraltet): Semois (Fluss)
Steinberg (veraltet): Stembert
Surbrot (veraltet): Sourbrodt
Schasteljung: Châtillon
Schönberg: DG (fr: Schoenberg)
Schadeck: Schadeck
Schockweiler: Schockville
Schoppach: Schoppach
Sesselich: Sesselich
Seimerich: Seymerich
Stehnen: Stehnen
Sterpenich: Sterpenich
Stockheim: Stockem


Tintingen (veraltet): Tintange
Törnich (veraltet): Toernich
Tontelingen (veraltet): Tontelange
Türpingen (veraltet): Turpange
Törtchenweiler (veraltet): Villers-Tortru


Üdingen: Udange
Urt (veraltet): Ourthe (Fluss)


Velwisch (veraltet): Verviers


Wallonisch-Brabant: Brabant-wallon (nl: Waals-Brabant)
Walzingen: Waltzing
Warchebrück: Pont-de-Warche (Papiermühle bei Malmedy)
Warnach: Warnach
Welkenrath (veraltet): Welkenraedt (nl: Welkenraat)
Welschbochholz (veraltet): Moinet
Weilerbach (veraltet): Villers-la-Bonne-Eau
Weiler: Weyler
Wanen (veraltet): Vance
Wolkringen (veraltet):Wolkrange
Weset (veraltet): Visé (nl: Wezet)
Weerst (veraltet): Warsage
Weismes: Waimes
Weser: Vesdre (Fluss, nl: Vesder)
Weywertz : Wévercé
Wiesenbach: Wisembach
Wolberg: Wolberg


Zillig (veraltet): Saint-Léger
Zur Heiden (veraltet): Gueuzaine
>>
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_deutscher_Bezeichnungen_belgischer_Orte
Qwaggmireland   Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:43 am GMT
Anyone know the waybackwhen Spanish translations of Belgium towns? Are there any olden maps out there from when Belgium was Espancophone?
PARISIEN   Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:07 am GMT
-- I wonder what culture Qwaggmireland belongs to (some Spanish retard I suppose) but his ignorance of anything French is more than laughable.


<< Why is the Francophone translation for Walloons - 'Wallon' rather than 'vallonne' or 'valloune' - these look and feel far more French-like. >>
-- Because "wallon" and "vallon" are different words with a different pronunciation, asshole!

<< Flanders: Eglise de Doune >>
-- "Doune"? Doesn't exist in French. It's "dune".

<< Flanders: L'ile/Lile = Lille (Rijsel)
*note why the hell did Frenchifiers add an extra 'l' in L'ile (the island) Was it an attempt to make the French name look pusedo-nordic as in Lillehammer/Lillestrom? >>
-- Utterly ridiculous! The name used to be "Lisle" (= "the island") but the spelling with a double "L" was customary in Old French and has been preserved. The Dutch "Rijsel" is just a clumsy translation.

<< Elsass: Moulouse/Maison de Moulin = Mulhouse (Mulhausen) >>
-- It takes a beaner to believe that the French pronunciation is "Moulouse"! And the German name is "Mühlhausen", not "Mulhausen"! The present name "Mulhouse" is a rendition of the actual pronunciation by locals. Similarly the Swiss call Schaffhausen "Schaffhouse" in French.

<< France/Normandy: L'arve/Larve = Le Harve
*note The French toungue cannot handle the staff 'h' >>`
-- Wrong. Norman pronunciation features an aspired "H".
And it's "Le Havre", not "Le Harve", retard!

<< Anyone know the waybackwhen Spanish translations of Belgium towns?>>

-- They call Antwerp for "Amberes"...
rep   Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:35 am GMT
<<The Dutch "Rijsel" is just a clumsy translation. >>
Ter IJssel"-Rijsel means an isle or a holm. Perhaps it looks clumsy only for you.
PARISIEN   Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:52 pm GMT
<< Perhaps it looks clumsy only for you. >>

-- Bedankt idioot!
"Ter Ijssel" is heel doorzichtig.
"Rijsel" vindt ik onhandig. Wat heeft het met "rijs" te maken?
rep   Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:20 pm GMT
<<PARISIEN Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:52 pm GMT

<< Perhaps it looks clumsy only for you. >>

-- Bedankt idioot!

"Ter Ijssel" is heel doorzichtig.
"Rijsel" vindt ik onhandig. Wat heeft het met "rijs" te maken? >>
<<De stad werd in de 11e eeuw gesticht door Boudewijn V, graaf van Vlaanderen, op een eiland in de Deule, vandaar de namen Ter IJssel, Rijssel of L'île, die alle naar eiland verwijzen.>>
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschiedenis_van_Rijsel
And who is you now?
LarryUSA   Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:50 pm GMT
Because these are EXONYMS. English is "guilty" of the same thing. Makes foreign names closer to the home language.

Examples in English include: The Hague. There is no "The Hague" in Dutch. There is only "Den Haag" or " 's-Gravenhage ". Why not call it "The Count's Hedge", this is the name rendered into English. The French call this city "La Haye" btw, while inclipably there is a cape in France called "Cap de la Hague". Odd.

Why did the English make a "half-assed" translation of København into "Copenhagen". Why not call it "Merchant Port City", the proper name in English.

English also turned Marseille into Marseilles and Lyon into Lyons for a time. Make exonyms is common, but a phenonomen that English and French share. English has tended to go for calling cities by their name in their native languages recently, but French has tended to continue this practice speaking in general.

It is curious to see the "w" in Wallon, but that Romance language has a history of curious Germanicisms in its language such as the use of Nordic grammar in its orthography. Perhaps this was the French way of communicating it was a sister language of Walloon to the Walloon people.
LarryUSA   Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:51 pm GMT
*inexplicably
rep   Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:06 pm GMT
<<Why did the English make a "half-assed" translation of København into "Copenhagen". Why not call it "Merchant Port City", the proper name in English.>>
København- Shopshaven in English (køb-to shop, havn-haven).
PARISIEN   Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:31 pm GMT
<< Examples in English include: The Hague. There is no "The Hague" in Dutch. There is only "Den Haag" or " 's-Gravenhage ". Why not call it "The Count's Hedge", this is the name rendered into English. The French call this city "La Haye" btw, while inclipably there is a cape in France called "Cap de la Hague". Odd. >>

-- It's not that weird. The earliest form in Norman French was "Hague" (hence the name of the Norman cape), which was passed to English to translate "Den Haag". Since then the word has been softened to "haye" ("La Haye" is a very common French toponym, "Den Haag" is also called that way) and ultimately in "haie".


<< Why did the English make a "half-assed" translation of København into "Copenhagen" >>

-- Germany's fault perhaps! The Hansa people misunterstood Danish "havn" as "hagen" instead of a variant of "Hafen". The Swedes didn't make that mistake, they correctly translate with "Köpenhamn" ("hamn" = "harbour").

Such bizarre exonyms frequently show up with harbour towns. Weirdest of all is "Leghorn", the traditional English word for Italian "Livorno".


<< It is curious to see the "w" in Wallon >>

-- Why?... That "w" is very common in toponyms, person names and dialects North of the Seine (Interestingly, this used to be the area known as "Gallia Belgica" in Roman times). On the motorway from Paris to Lille, first exit after the airport reads "St-Witz". The southernmost example is probably Wissous, a remote Southern suburb of Paris.


<< Perhaps this was the French way of communicating it was a sister language of Walloon >>

-- Walloon was arguably the craddle of the French language but has remained very conservative. For instance, in the "Chanson de Roland" the word for "eau" ("water") is "ewe", which is still the word used in Walloon ("eiwe").