|
|
Forms of Spanish are most likely to break from Castilian
If this isn't disintegration, I don't know what is:
tú hablas / puedes tú hablás / podés tu avlas / puedes vos hablás / podés vos hablas / puedes vos hablái / podís vos hablái / podéi vos habláis / podéis usted habla / puede (ie, used familiarly)
That isn't desintegration. It's just called "voseo".
The first is "no voseo" The second is "voseo" from Central America The third is wrong The fourth is "voseo" from Argentina and Uruguay The fifth is "voseo" from Central America as well, also found in Colombia. The sixth and seventh are "voseo" from Chile. usted habla/puede is used familiarly only in Colombia. Again, standard urban Spanish spoken in all Latin American countries don't feature "voseo", except Argentinian and Uruguayan Spanish of course. "Voseo" is now a feature of regional accents in Latin America. I wouldn't say it's going to disappear sometime soon. But it definitely won't become the standard again because "voseo" lost prestige centuries ago when its use was abandoned in Spain. Now you know what it is.
Let me add:
Vos podeis / vos hablais That's the original "Vos" conjugation for the present simple indicative. It was in use in Spain about 4 centuries ago. And it was considered respectful, elegant and fashionable. Until they got bored of it after a century of using it. In the colonies, however, that form was preserved. But as no one coming from Spain used it, they started to be abused. People used it always to sound posh but with ridiculous results. Common people would use it, but as there was no noble people from whom they could copy it, the "vos" conjugations started to change. In Peru and Mexico there's almost no "Voseo" because as they were the most important areas, nobles sort of "spread the news" that "Vos" was not used anymore, it was even considered vulgar then. But in remote areas of the colony, people didn't know of this new tendency or once they knew about it, they were too accustomed to using "Vos" they just couldn't leave it. And so "Voseo" became what it is now. Regards
Ladino is good evidence that Spanish won't desintegrate for a long time. 500 years of isolation and it's still as understandable as any other dialect.
Tu hablas (standard Spanish) and Vos hablás (Argentinian voseo) are the most common. All other ways are minoritaries.
It is not so different and all people can understand both. Even the Argentinian Spanish can dissapear in the future because the standard Spanish has more prestige. Besides, there are several important channels like Univision (USA), Galavision (Mexico) and TVE (Spain) that unify the language. I think that they can play an important role to promote standard Spanish around the World. On the whole, if we make a comparison among French, English and Spanish, the last one is the best preserved and the most unified because of the simple phonetic of the language. There are more French and English creoles around the World.
>>Informante Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:42 am GMT
<<tu avlas / puedes >> <<The third is wrong >> It's Ladino.<< Great then. Ladino IS another Romance language. Saying "tu avlas" in Spanish would be wrong. >>informante Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:54 am GMT Ladino is good evidence that Spanish won't desintegrate for a long time. 500 years of isolation and it's still as understandable as any other dialect.<< That's right. Ladino has been around for ages, and it still hasn't changed in a way that could make it unintelligible to us Spanish speakers. How could anybody think then, that dialects in Spanish can diverge so much as to become different languages then? That is not likely to happen in at least a thousand years, if we humas manage to survive that long, of course. To Otro informante: Argentinian "Voseo" is the most well known, but the others are not minorities. "Voseo" in Chile is also very common, a bit more than half the population use it in everyday speech. Of course, it's not like we're going to hear it on TVChile, for instance. But it's an important feature of Chilean Spanish. And as I stated before, different "Voseo" forms are vastly used in various Latin American countries. Only that, they are not the standard and so those forms don't have much recognition. Unlike Argentina, where "Voseo" can be considered part of the standard Argentine speech. And when you said: >>Besides, there are several important channels like Univision (USA), Galavision (Mexico) and TVE (Spain) that unify the language. I think that they can play an important role to promote standard Spanish around the World. On the whole, if we make a comparison among French, English and Spanish, the last one is the best preserved and the most unified because of the simple phonetic of the language. There are more French and English creoles around the World.<< That made my day. You have a point, man. Well done. Kind regards.
<< hahahaha.......rsrsrsrsrs.......I completely agree:) >>
You completely agree with your alter ego who is Penetra.
Venezuelan Spanish
============= Venezuelan Spanish is a dialect of the Spanish language spoken in Venezuela. Spanish was introduced in Venezuela by the conquistadors. Most of them were from Andalusia, Galicia, Basque Country and from the Canary Islands. Perhaps the latter has been the most fundamental influence on modern Venezuelan Spanish, to the point that Canarian and Venezuelan accents may seem indistinguishable to other Spanish speakers. Italian and Portuguese immigrants came later in the late 19th and early 20th century, their linguistic contributions, Italy by the most part, defined this dialect. The Spaniards additionally brought African slaves. This is the origin of expressions such as chévere ("excellent"), which comes from Yoruba ché egberi. Other non-Romance words came from Native languages, such as guayoyo (a type of coffee) and caraota (common bean). The Venezuelan (sometime) upper-class and middle class "snob" (or "sifrino" in colloquial Venezuelan Spanish) accent is often thought of as the "pretty-boy" or "boy band" accent of Spanish. This is hardly the case for the majority of spoken Venezuelan Spanish, widely ranging from its occasional formal form, to the more common -highly slang spiced- every day form, to the heavily "thug or thuggish" ("malandro" in Venezuelan Spanish) inflected manner, often found in the slums or "barrios" of the country. Contents Dialectal features * Venezuelan Spanish often shortens words, for example, changing para "for" into pa. In addition, /d/ between vowels is often dropped (elision): helado "ice cream" becomes /ela'o/. Originally from southern Spain and the Canary Islands, but these traits are common to many other Spanish variations. * Another common feature is the aspiration of syllable-final -s, whereby adiós "goodbye" becomes [aˈðjɔh]. Common to most coastal areas in America, the Canary Islands, and the southern half of Spain. * As in most American dialects, also, Venezuelan Spanish has yeísmo (a merger of /ʎ/ and /ʝ/), and seseo (traditional /θ/ merges with /s/). That is, calló "s/he became silent" and cayó "s/he fell" are homophones, and casa "house" is homophonous with caza "hunt". Seseo is common to all of America, the Canary Islands, and southern Spain, and yeísmo is prevalent in most Spanish variations. * A characteristic common to the Venezuelan, Dominican, Cuban and Costa Rican dialects is the use of the diminutive -ico and -ica instead of the standard -ito and -ita, restricted to words with -t in the last syllable; for example, rata "rat" becomes ratica "little rat". * The second-person singular informal pronoun is usually tú, as in most of Latin America and also in Spain. This practice is referred to as tuteo. However, in Zulia and some parts of Falcón and Trujillo, it is common to find voseo, that is, the use of vos instead of tú. This phenomenon is present in many other Latin American dialects (notably Rioplatense), but Zulian voseo is diptongado, that is, the conjugation preserves the diphthongs of the historical vos conjugation that have been monophthongized in Rioplatense (which means the Zulian forms are the same as those used in Spanish from Spain for the second person plural vosotros): instead of tú eres, tú estás, Zulian says vos sois, vos estáis (compare with plural forms in Spanish from Spain vosotros sois, vosotros estáis; and with Rioplatense forms vos sos, vos estás). Another exception to the tuteo of Venezuelan Spanish is the use of the second-person singular formal pronoun usted interchangeably with tú, a practice that is unique to the states of Mérida and Tachira.[1] * The word vaina is used with a variety of meanings (such as "shame", "thing or topic", "pity" and many others) and often as an interjection or a nonsensical filler. * Venezuelan Spanish has a lot of Italianisms and Anglicisms. [edit] Regional variations There are several sub-dialects within Venezuelan Spanish. * The Caracas dialect, spoken in the capital: is perceived and projected by the media to be the standard Spanish of Venezuela, with its variants generally related to the social classes found therein. It is mostly used in the capital, Caracas, and in other areas of the country such as Valencia. * The Zulian dialect in the north-west of the country, also called maracucho or marabino, which uses voseo, like in the in part of the Lara area. * The Lara dialect, where voseo is also used, but where the verbal declension of Old Spanish is kept (vos coméis). * The Andean dialect, in particular the state of Táchira near the Colombian border. It is characterized by a non-aspirated pronunciation of s and use of Usted instead of tú, even within informal contexts. Another variant, in the states of Mérida and Trujillo still uses Usted instead of tu, but lacks the non-aspirated pronunciation of the s. * The Margaritan dialect, spoken in Isla Margarita and in the north-east of continental Venezuela. The Margaritan dialect presents sometimes an interdental when pronouncing pre-vowel 's' and use of a strong 'r' instead of 'l' in most of the words. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_Spanish Cuban Spanish ========== Differences with other dialects are most notable in the pronunciation of certain consonants, especially with relation to their syllabic position. One of the most prominent features of Cuban Spanish is the debuccalization of /s/ in the syllable coda. This trait is shared with many other Caribbean varieties of Spanish,[1] as well as those further away. Take for example, the following sentence: Esos perros no tienen dueños [ˈesoh ˈperoh no ˈtjenen ˈdweɲoh] ('Those dogs do not have owners') Also, because /s/ may also be deleted in the syllable coda and because this feature has variable realizations, any or all instances of [h] in the above example may be dropped, potentially rendering [ˈeso ˈpero no ˈtjenen ˈdweɲo]. Another instance of lenition, in Cuban Spanish is the deletion of final[2] intervocalic /d/. With intervocalic deletion (e.g. condado [konˈda.o] 'county') Another characteristic of Cuban Spanish is the use of the diminutive -ico and -ica instead of the standard -ito and -ita. But this use is restricted to words with -t in the last syllable. For example, plato ('plate') platico instead of platito while cara ('face') becomes carita. This form is common to the Venezuelan, Cuban, Costa Rican and Colombian dialects. The Cuban Spanish of the eastern provinces (former Oriente) is closer to the Dominican Republic Spanish than to the Spanish spoken in the western part of the island. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Spanish Chilean Spanish ========== There are a number of phonetic features common to most Chilean accents, though none of them individually are unique to Chilean Spanish. Rather, it is the particular combination of features that sets Chilean Spanish apart from other regional Spanish dialects. These features include:[2][3] * Yeísmo, the merger of the phonemes /ʎ/, spelled <ll>, with /j/, spelled <y>. Thus, cayó ("fell") and calló ("fell silent") are homophones, both pronounced [kaˈjo]. In dialects which lack yeísmo, the two words would be pronounced respectively [kaˈjo] and [kaˈʎo]. Though yeísmo is common to most of Latin America, it is not the case that this feature should be considered a Latin American one, because both in Spain and Latin America there are regions with and without "yeísmo". Even in Chile, there are some people, mostly elderly speakers in rural zones, that are not "yeístas". * Word- and syllable-final /s/ is aspirated to [h] or lost entirely, another feature common to much of Latin America. Whether final /s/ aspirates or is elided depends on a number of social, regional, and phonological factors, but in general aspiration is more common, especially when preceding a consonant. Complete elision is most commonly found word-finally, but is somewhat less common overall in formal or upper-class speech. Thus, los chilenos ("the Chileans") becomes [lɔh t͡ʃiˈleːnɔ]. * The velar consonants /k/, /ɡ/, and /x/ are fronted or palatalized before front vowels. Thus, queso ("cheese"), guía ("guide"), and jinete ("rider/horseman") become respectively [ˈceːso], [ˈɣ̟ia], and [çiˈn̪eːt̪e]. * Between vowels and word-finally, /d/ commonly elides or lenites (a process common throughout the Spanish-speaking world), so that contado ("told") and ciudad ("city") become respectively [kon̪ˈt̪aːo] and [sjuˈð̞aː]. * The voiceless postalveolar affricate /t͡ʃ/ is pronounced as a fricative [ʃ] by many the lower-class speakers (thus, Chile becomes [ˈʃiːle]). Other variants are a fronted alveolar affricate, [t͡s], and an even more fronted dental affricate, [t̪ˢ]. * The sequences [h]+[β̞] and [h]+[ɣ̞] (where the [h]s are the results of /s/-weakening) are devoiced to, respectively, [f] and [x]. Thus, resbaló ("slid") and rasgó ("tore") become respectively [rɛfaˈloː] and [raˈxoː] in some speakers. * The sequence /ɾn/ is sometimes assimilated to [nn]. Thus, jornada ("workday") may become [xonˈn̪aː][citation needed]. * In the sequence /bl/, the /b/ may be vocalized to [u]. Thus, inolvidable ("unforgettable") becomes [in̪olˈβ̞jaːule], in lower-class or no formal education speakers. * Lipski also mentions as distinctive the devoicing of word-final, unstressed vowels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilean_Spanish
<< There are more French and English creoles around the World.>>
Yes there maybe more French and English creoles around the World, but LatAm, Andalusian, and Canarian Spanish are different enough from Castilian and from each other that they are closer to Chamorro, Chavacano, and Papiamen to than to Castilian. << What/where are your sources? >> Go to youtube and listen to how chicanos speak! They tend to eliminate "e" at the end ofthe word.
The "SPANISH" LANGUAGE: Mexico and other Spanish-speaking countries
Films for the Humanities and Sciences, based in Princeton, New Jersey, performs an invaluable service in providing us with a vast array of informative films, useful in teaching and fascinating as documentaries. It has issued a six-part series, "Biography of the Spanish Language." It is not aimed at specialists, who might argue with many of the statements, but at the broad public; indeed, it began as a series of programs for Mexican television and possibly schools. To attract a wide public it uses the tricks of the trade: noisy background music, lighting effects, and slapstick humor. The problem is that these effects tend to drown out the speech, the subject of the series. It treats language as the expression of a culture and its history, with literature, especially poetry, as its elevated form as opposed to the vernacular. It views Spanish from a Mexican perspective, which is understandable, since Mexico has more inhabitants than any other country. However, it mentions only briefly other Latin American forms of Spanish, with not a word about Catalan or Portuguese. The first film deals with the history of Spanish down to its introduction in the Americas. The conquistadores appear as a violent, rather stupid lot, while Indian life is romanticized. There are pictures of beautiful colonial cities, but no credit is given to the Spanish civil authorities who planned them. The Inquisition is condemned, while the missionaries,are praised. The Jesuits are lauded for having promoted the cause of independence in the colonial period. are there any books on that subject? The section on modern colloquial Spanish, especially that spoken on television, is discouraging. It is often difficult to understand, even for people from other Spanish-speaking countries. The film makes light of this, but it is a pathetic decline from the beautiful Spanish promoted by the Spanish Academy. Even some Latin American students at Stanford use a slang unknown to me and often to other Latin Americans. Some WAISers defend the variants as the expression of a people, but they seem to have a romantic longing for the good old times when the inhabitants of one valley could not understand those of the next. John Wonder complains about this, and about the machine-gun like speech of young people. Indeed, in the Bogota I first knew, the "Athens of America," the intellectual elite spoke a very beautiful Spanish. Now SCOLA rebroadcasts news programs from Cali. The young women announcers on the program rattle off Spanish is high-pitched voices without the intonation indicating comprehension. The decline of Spanish in Colombia is a tragedy, admittedly insignificant in comparison with the major tragedy of life there. The influence of politics on language may be baneful in many parts of the Spanish-speaking world. In 1932 I went to Barcelona to study Catalan with Pompeu Fabra, revered as the father of contemporary Catalan studies; a university is named after him. The atmosphere was very pleasant. Then came the Civil War and Franco, who suppressed Catalan autonomy and the Catalan language. The backlash has been distressing. I am probably the only surviving pupil of Pompeu Fabra, and I thought that would earn general respect. Nevertheless, a young Catalan has accused me of insulting his language, while others have charged that I am a victim of Spanish propaganda. This mentality is counterproductive, endangering Barcelona's leading place as a publisher of books in Spanish. One WAISer tells me she has an American friend who speaks very good Spanish and is married to a Barcelona businessman. They live in New York, but he does not want his children to learn Spanish. Does he realize that he is closing the door to opportunities which would open to them in the vast Spanish-speaking world? Ronald Hilton - 4/15/01 http://www.stanford.edu/group/wais/Language/language_mexandothers41501.html
"Does he realize that he is closing the door to opportunities which would open to them in the vast Spanish-speaking world? "
No. He isnt so idiot.Theres no door to be opened. Spanish is basically only learned as a second language in Brasil and France(why?), the rest is bullshit.The rest of the world dont give a damn to spanish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idioma_espa%C3%B1ol Spanish total = almost 29m Brazil+France = almost 18m > 60% Maybe wikipedia is wrong and we must search another source? |