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Can you learn a resonably phonetic language without audio?
Some more unusual languages don't have any structured courses with audio, simply a few grammars and dictionaries. Is it possibly to learn a language with access to audio corressponding to what you are learning, or will you just end up with poor pronouncation/confused?
Cheers
Even for Spanish you should be learning by listening to, since the correct pronunciation and intonation cannot be learned only by reading.
Alba is pronounced Alba. There are two letters for the B sound: B and V. The sound of V in English does not exist in Spanish.
<<Spanish is not phonetic. 'Alba' is pronounced 'Alva'>>
Not really. As Franco points out there's the English sound for "v" doesn't exist in Spanish. Nor does the sound for "b". Our "b" and "v" distinction was lost ages ago, now they're both pronounced with a more of an bilabial approximant sound, I reckon. Although at schools, teachers do ridiculous efforts to sort of revive the difference in pronunciation. But that will just not happen. Now to answer your question. You can have an idea of how the pronunciation is if you learn all the pronunciation rules of a phonetic language regarding writing. That will give you a general idea of the pronunciation, you still need audio input to learn properly, especially if the language is different from your native tongue. For example, when I was learning Italian, the first thing I did was learn the phonetics, all the sounds, which are not difficult at all for a Spanish speaker. But I did need audio input to imitate the sounds and get them right. Then I learnt all the pronunciation rules so I would always know how to pronounce a word. That was not difficult for me since the pronunciation rules are quite regular, a little different from Spanish (with a couple of sounds we don't use in Spanish) but still easy. And now I can nearly always know how a word is pronounced just by looking at it. However that will only give you an idea of how the language sounds. Listening to native speakers is vital to enhance your aural comprehension and enable you to understand someone else actually speaking the language. The process was similar when I started with Portuguese. Only the process is much more difficult because of the more complex phonetic system. It's still difficult for me to understand spoken Portuguese although my Portuguese sounds clear enough. However it's still by no means at a native like level. My conclusion: If a language has very regular phonetic rules (I mean with few exceptions) AND if it is close to your native language, you can learn the pronunciation with relatively little audio input. But later in your studies if you want to speak the language properly and be able to understand other people actually speaking the language, especially native speakers; you need a lot of audio input. So in that case: Phonetics (what the sounds are) can be learnt with not much audio. Phonology (how the sounds work together) can't be learnt without aural practice. Kind regards
It's like you would learn all the words from the English dictionary plus all the theoretical grammar rules (just abstract theory with no examples) and then try to speak natural English. I wonder what would that "English" sound like. :)
<<It's like you would learn all the words from the English dictionary plus all the theoretical grammar rules (just abstract theory with no examples) and then try to speak natural English. I wonder what would that "English" sound like. :) >>
I see your point in principle, but there are some languages that are far more phonetic than English and once the pronounciation system has been learnt can be accurately pronounced without the need to hear the language first.
Not well! Even in a phonetically spelled language there are issues of actual intonation. And what's phonetic in one language may not correspond exactly to what you're used to, as illustrated by the B and V comment; completely distinct in one language, same sound in another.
Vytenis, English is not a "phonetic" language. Learning English that way is simply impossible. If someone tried to learn English like that, it would lead them to a inimaginable chaos.
I agree with Uriel. It may give you a slight idea of how the language sounds. But if you really want to speak well, you've got to hear real people actually using and speaking the language in everyday situations. Regards
<<inimaginable chaos>>
hohoho, gross mistake there... That should be: "unimaginable chaos."
Italian is not really phonetic. Many times you have to use the dictionary to see the correct pronunciation (open or closed vowels) or spelling (è é and double consonants).
Spanish is strange too, for example G in Gato and G in ÁGUA or ARGONÁUTA are pronounced with a different consonant (it's occlusive in GATO but approximant in ÁGUA and ARGONÁUTA). FUI according to logic should be ['fui or 'fuj] but it's not, it is [fwi]. So, MUY and FUI don't rhyme at all. Why FUI is not spelled FUÍ is beyond me.
>>Spanish is strange too, for example G in Gato and G in ÁGUA or ARGONÁUTA are pronounced with a different consonant (it's occlusive in GATO but approximant in ÁGUA and ARGONÁUTA). <<
That's because when it occurs at the beginning of a word it's occlusive. But in the middle of a word it's always an approximant. >>FUI according to logic should be ['fui or 'fuj] but it's not, it is [fwi]. So, MUY and FUI don't rhyme at all. Why FUI is not spelled FUÍ is beyond me.<< You're right. If you must know, it used to be FUÍ, but not anymore. The same with FUÉ, it's now FUE. It's a little spelling reform that started a decade ago. Monosyllabic dipthongs like the ones in FUI and FUE are not spelled with an accent anymore. Regarding Italian: Italian words are only accented if when the last syllable gets the major stress. And in this case you almost always use "`", Eg: città, virtù, capacità. And where you do prefer "´" you can also use "`" without much trouble. Eg: perchè and perché. Double consonants sound different from single consonants in Italian. Eg: caro vs carro, tori vs torri, note vs notte, sono vs sonno, pena vs penna. Etc. vowels before double consonats are always a little shorter while the consonant is lengthened a bit. Kind regards
I agree with the others that it's really important to hear the language spoken and see the person speaking it to get a feel for how the sounds come out, how the words work together, and even, if you're very observant, how the native speaker uses their mouth. For instance, you might notice that Spanish speakers don't press their lips hard together like we do in English when they say B(=V). I was shocked when I first heard all the sinalefa and elision in native Spanish speech, melding together all of those words, which were previously so straightforward in our gentle word-by-word lessons.
The only exception I suppose is Latin, which is a bit of a special case. I always felt aggrieved that the German class got to go on exchange visits while our Latin class didn't. Why couldn't we have a holiday in Rome for a week, then speak English to some bones for a week back home, in return? |