Should minority languages be exterminated?

Franco   Wed May 12, 2010 10:50 pm GMT
I like chicken, too!
Franco   Wed May 12, 2010 10:52 pm GMT
Perpignan would be bigger than Barcelona* is nowadays.
Yugo   Wed May 12, 2010 10:55 pm GMT
Does Marseilles arguably have more charm than Barcelona?
Franco   Wed May 12, 2010 10:56 pm GMT
I've been to Marseille and believe me, it can't be even compared to Barcelona.
Thor   Wed May 12, 2010 10:57 pm GMT
"Perpignan was the second largest city in Catalonia before the annexion by the French. Who knows, maybe if Roussillon was Spanish Perpignan would be even bigger than Catalonia is nowadays. One thing is for sure, it would be bigger than it is nowadays, because it has been reduced to an insignificant village of 80 000 inhabitants."

You often use the word "would" in your sentances. Sorry, but i prefer facts. And you didn't answer to my question : if northern Spain was rich by its own, why all those spanish emigrants from everywhere in Spain to France or Switzerland, Germany during a century...?

"Anyways Marseille, a big city, is also poorer than Barcelona."

I have not the sources, but let's admit it. I've already answered : economic expansion of tourism (Marseille has always live from industry in the contrary of Barcelona).
Franco   Wed May 12, 2010 11:00 pm GMT
Barcelona has more industry than Marseille by far, but also it has tourism. Most of the Spanish chemical and pharmaceutical industry is located in Barcelona and surrounding areas. It's not Barcelona's blame that it is a beautiful city whereas the only attraction of Marseille is the Muslim ghettos.
Thor   Wed May 12, 2010 11:01 pm GMT
Little precision : Barcelone has a recent industry, not a ancient one.
Thor   Wed May 12, 2010 11:03 pm GMT
"the only attraction of Marseille is the Muslim ghettos."

Don't forget that those ghettos are partly compounded of sons and grand-sons of spanish immigrants. Who has been received with spits, hits, and injures. We could say that they are partly your cousins...
Thor   Wed May 12, 2010 11:07 pm GMT
End of discussion. It's time to sleep (always those lazy french)
Franco   Wed May 12, 2010 11:09 pm GMT
Barcelona has industry since the XIX century. It began industrialising at the same time than Northern France and North Italy. First railway in Spain connected Barcelona and Mataró in 1848 precissely to satisfy the increasing need to transport manufactured goods. Compare that to being reduced to a rural and forgotten land like Roussillon since centuries. Definately when Catalans from Roussillon decided to unite to France they made a bad decission.
Flemish   Wed May 12, 2010 11:43 pm GMT
I agree with Franco.
Franco   Thu May 13, 2010 2:06 pm GMT
You agree with me on liking chicken?
rep   Thu May 13, 2010 8:53 pm GMT
"FRANCIZATION
Francization of ethnic minorities in France
Francization is also a designator applied to a number of ethnic assimilation policies implemented by French authorities from the French revolution to nowadays. These policies aimed at imposing or maintaining the dominance of French language and culture by encouraging or compelling people of other ethnic groups to adopt the French language and culture, and to develop a French identity.

[edit] National minorities
The term can be applied to the Francization of the German-speaking inhabitants of Alsace-Lorraine after this region was reannexed by France following the First World War, to the Flemings in French Flanders, or to the Occitans in Occitania, as well as to Bretons, Catalans, Corsicans and Basques.

It began in fact with the ordinance of Villers-Cotterêts under king Francis I of France, that prescribed the official use of the French language in all the documents. The other tongues like Occitan began to disappear as written languages.

Everything was francized step by step : surnames, place-names, etc. Nowadays it still continues but people can change their names to bretonize (replacement of 'Le' by 'Ar' for instance Le Bras becomes Ar Braz 'the tall') or occitanize it again. The city signs for example, must be spelled the French way, but the local authorities are now allowed to add the original way.
Foreign minorities
[edit] Francization in Quebec
The Government of Quebec has francization policies intended to establish French as the primary language of business and commerce. All businesses are required to provide written communications and schedules in French, and may not make knowledge of a language other than French a condition of hiring unless this is justified by the nature of the duties. Businesses with more than fifty employees are required to register with the Quebec Office of the French language in order to become eligible for a francization certificate, which is granted if the linguistic requirements are met. If not, employers are required to adopt a francization programme, which includes having employees, especially ones in managerial positions, who do not speak French or whose grasp of French is weak attend French-language training.[1]

As part of the francization programme, the Quebec government provides free language courses for recent immigrants (from other countries or other provinces) who do not speak French or whose command of French is weak. The government also provides financial assistance for those who are unable to find employment due to being unable to speak French.[2]

Another aspect of francization in Quebec regards the quality of the French used in Quebec. The Quebec Office of the French language has, since its formation, undertaken to discourage anglicisms and to promote high standards of French language education in schools.[3]

The francization programmes have been considerate as a great success , since 1977 (date of the vote of the Charter of the French Language.) the number of English speaker went from 14% in 1970 to less than 6.7% in 2006, also in the 70's the French languages was understood by only the native French speakers, (80%) of the population of Quebec, now (2001) French is understood by more than 94% of the population[4]. Also th immigrant choosing English school for there kids went from 80% in 1970 to less than 4% in 2006.[5]

But the most important thing is that the French is becoming more and more attractive for foreigns speakers which shows that the francization programmes is a complete success.[6]

Montreal is a particular case , because unlike the rest of Quebec , the French speaker proportion diminished but this doesn't mean that the francization programmes did not work,because we can see than English speakers diminished too, it's just that Montreal is the place that 93% of new immigrants choose to set,[7] so other languages than French and English went up really fast over those passed years , but the French politics will assimilate those immigrants , they send there kids to French schools and they use the French to speak between each-other , the government of Quebec estimate that the next 20 years will see the French-Speaker proportion of Montreal going back up.[8]

But those estimations seems to underestimat the Francization of Montreal for some experts because the statistics shows that it's already going back up from 55.6% (1996)to 56.4% (2001)[9]

Also the success of the Francization of Quebec can be seen over the borders of his territory , in Ontario the proportion of English speakers dropped from 70.5% in 2001 to 68% in 2006[10][11] wile the French speaker proportion went up from 4.06% (488 815) in 2006 to 4.80%(580 000) in 2009.

But it's even stronger in new-Brunswick , when entire cities became French speaking , for example :the city of Edmundston, who went from 89% of French speaker in 1996 to 93.4% in 2006, the city of Moncton (from 30,4% in 1996 to 33% in 2006), Dalhousie (from 42,5% to 49,5%) and Dieppe (from 71.1% in 1996 to 74.2% en 2006). Some cities even passed over the 50% of French speaker between 1991 to 2006 like Bathurst, who passed from 44,6% of French speaker in 1996 to 50,5% in 2006, or Campbellton,(from 47% in 1996 to 55% in 2006).[12][13][14]

The Charter of the French Language is a complet sucsses , Hervé Lavenir de Buffon (secrétaire général of the « Comité international pour le français, langue européenne » said in 2006 : "Before the bill 101 Montreal looked like a American city , now Montreal look like a French-speaking city ,that proves how well the bill 101 worked!"[15]


Rates of francization may be established for any group by comparing the number of people who usually speak French to the total number of people in the minority language group. See Calvin Veltman's Language Shift in the United States (1983) for a discussion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francization
Mallorquí   Fri May 14, 2010 2:47 am GMT
Biggest industry of Marseille is smelly Muslim markets with "halal" food.
Mallorquí   Fri May 14, 2010 3:30 am GMT
I like chickens, too!