I decided to write this forum because I thought there was too much grammatical analyzation and no real world spoken intelligability in regards to Englishes spoken unintelligability with other Germanic languages. I notice that I cannot understand hardly any other spoken Germanic languages and I know I am not alone regarding this point. When did the spoken unintelligability start? When was English intelligable with the other Germanic languages ( since as we know Dutch and German are very intelligable to each other and from the comments of many antimooners norweigan, swedish, and danish are even more mutually intelligable). What are your thoughts on this issue and do you think that English should have its own seperate category because of its divergence away from the other Germanic languages
English and intelligability with Germanic languages
In my opinion, one of the reasons why English is so popular (besides colonialism and the US as a superpower) is that it is a "mixture" of two of the most important language groups, the Germanic and the Latin.
English I would like to point out isn't a hybid of the two Carlos. I think English is 'Germanic with a French twist of lime'. Actually a nice cocktail.
" In my opinion, one of the reasons why English is so popular (besides colonialism and the US as a superpower) is that it is a "mixture" of two of the most important language groups, the Germanic and the Latin. "
I don't agree with that. First, english is not a "mixture" of germanic and latin languages. english is a germanic language with a latin influence, especially in specific vocabulary. That's a big difference. I don't know how english is perceved by speakers of germanic languages, but for romance speakers it is felt very "germanic".
And second I think that the popularity of english is only caused by the influence of the USA, economically and culturally (both are linked). english didn't had the importance it had in the past but was already the germanic language with latin/french influences we know now.
I don't agree with that. First, english is not a "mixture" of germanic and latin languages. english is a germanic language with a latin influence, especially in specific vocabulary. That's a big difference. I don't know how english is perceved by speakers of germanic languages, but for romance speakers it is felt very "germanic".
And second I think that the popularity of english is only caused by the influence of the USA, economically and culturally (both are linked). english didn't had the importance it had in the past but was already the germanic language with latin/french influences we know now.
<english is a germanic language with a latin influence, especially in specific vocabulary>
Influence ?
Is that how you call the 70% of Latin words in English ? Influence ? LOL ! Only Less than 18% are Germanic words. The French wiped out the old English words and almost 50% of Germanic words.
Technically English is a hybrid language consisting of 72.6% Latin words 18.3 Germanic and 9.1% others. The only Germanic thing is the grammar and language ancestry. English is considered “Germanic” only because of Ancestry and grammar !
Besides an English speaker can understand more written Spanish or French than Dutch or German!
Have you ever heard spoken Dutch, Danish, or German?
You wont understand a word ! How ironic is that!?
Influence ?
Is that how you call the 70% of Latin words in English ? Influence ? LOL ! Only Less than 18% are Germanic words. The French wiped out the old English words and almost 50% of Germanic words.
Technically English is a hybrid language consisting of 72.6% Latin words 18.3 Germanic and 9.1% others. The only Germanic thing is the grammar and language ancestry. English is considered “Germanic” only because of Ancestry and grammar !
Besides an English speaker can understand more written Spanish or French than Dutch or German!
Have you ever heard spoken Dutch, Danish, or German?
You wont understand a word ! How ironic is that!?
"Besides an English speaker can understand more written Spanish or French than Dutch or German! "
I completely agree with this assertion. Even in the United States when High School students learn a foreign language they usually talk about the difficulty of learning German especially concerning pronunciation and the easier time they have with Spanish or French.
I completely agree with this assertion. Even in the United States when High School students learn a foreign language they usually talk about the difficulty of learning German especially concerning pronunciation and the easier time they have with Spanish or French.
Yeah , I agree with Piotr and JGreco ! English is more "French and Spanish" than "German and Dutch"
>>"Besides an English speaker can understand more written Spanish or French than Dutch or German! "
I completely agree with this assertion. Even in the United States when High School students learn a foreign language they usually talk about the difficulty of learning German especially concerning pronunciation and the easier time they have with Spanish or French.<<
This is only because of all the Romance and Latin words which have entered English. Underneath all of that, the phonology, morphology, and syntax of English are still undeniably Germanic in nature, and have little in common with such of Spanish or French besides being Indo-European in nature and having noun morphology that is typical of weakly synthetic languages; of course, English also shares such with various Germanic languages such as Dutch and the continental North Germanic standard languages.
I completely agree with this assertion. Even in the United States when High School students learn a foreign language they usually talk about the difficulty of learning German especially concerning pronunciation and the easier time they have with Spanish or French.<<
This is only because of all the Romance and Latin words which have entered English. Underneath all of that, the phonology, morphology, and syntax of English are still undeniably Germanic in nature, and have little in common with such of Spanish or French besides being Indo-European in nature and having noun morphology that is typical of weakly synthetic languages; of course, English also shares such with various Germanic languages such as Dutch and the continental North Germanic standard languages.
But the fact of the matter is just as the title of this forum suggests Engish is unintelligible to all other Germanic languages even syntax, grammer, and word roots are germanic.
>>But the fact of the matter is just as the title of this forum suggests Engish is unintelligible to all other Germanic languages even syntax, grammer, and word roots are germanic.<<
Well, it does have *some* crossintelligibility with Scots, which is commonly overlooked here; even then, of course, Scots is still far enough from English that one can call it a separate language from it. Excepting Scots, the reason for what you describe here is a function of a number of different factors, including:
1) the relative isolation of English from other Germanic languages other than Scots after the end of the Viking Age (it still had some contact via trade with other Germanic languages such as Old Frisian, Middle Low Saxon, and both Middle and Early Modern Dutch, but this was relatively small compared to the contact between, say, High German dialects and both Dutch and Low Saxon)
2) the moving of genetically close languages other than Scots away from English due to outside influence; that is, the influence of Dutch, Low Saxon, and Danish on the Frisian languages reducing that which they have in common with English
3) the unfamiliarity of many native Germanic words in other Germanic languages due to their loss in English
4) the replacement of West Germanic words with North Germanic words, which produced increased distance with respect to lexicon between English and the other West Germanic languages that are closest to it *genetically*
Well, it does have *some* crossintelligibility with Scots, which is commonly overlooked here; even then, of course, Scots is still far enough from English that one can call it a separate language from it. Excepting Scots, the reason for what you describe here is a function of a number of different factors, including:
1) the relative isolation of English from other Germanic languages other than Scots after the end of the Viking Age (it still had some contact via trade with other Germanic languages such as Old Frisian, Middle Low Saxon, and both Middle and Early Modern Dutch, but this was relatively small compared to the contact between, say, High German dialects and both Dutch and Low Saxon)
2) the moving of genetically close languages other than Scots away from English due to outside influence; that is, the influence of Dutch, Low Saxon, and Danish on the Frisian languages reducing that which they have in common with English
3) the unfamiliarity of many native Germanic words in other Germanic languages due to their loss in English
4) the replacement of West Germanic words with North Germanic words, which produced increased distance with respect to lexicon between English and the other West Germanic languages that are closest to it *genetically*
"Well, it does have *some* crossintelligibility with Scots, which is commonly overlooked here; even then, of course, Scots is still far enough from English that one can call it a separate language from it."
I agree that Scots could be considered a separate language from English because of differences in vocabulary and even some grammatical differences. But, I would say they share more than 'some' crossintelligibility. The only time I found understanding my Scottish grandfather and his family difficult was when they were speaking fast. When spoken slowly I found I could understand quite a lot of it. Whether this is because having Scottish family mean't Scots sounded more familiar to me than most I don't know but, despite not being a Scots native, I didn't find understanding it that difficult. In my case I would say that English does share mutual intelligibility with at least one other Germanic language.
I agree that Scots could be considered a separate language from English because of differences in vocabulary and even some grammatical differences. But, I would say they share more than 'some' crossintelligibility. The only time I found understanding my Scottish grandfather and his family difficult was when they were speaking fast. When spoken slowly I found I could understand quite a lot of it. Whether this is because having Scottish family mean't Scots sounded more familiar to me than most I don't know but, despite not being a Scots native, I didn't find understanding it that difficult. In my case I would say that English does share mutual intelligibility with at least one other Germanic language.
hi all! English has got the simplicity and logicity of german grammar with the lexicon of latin languages, so it is a perefect cocktail
>>"Besides an English speaker can understand more written Spanish or French than Dutch or German! "
Yes, an Anglophone and a Latinophone understand each other perfectly when talking about such abstract issues as....the mutual intelligibility of languages.....but when it comes to basic stuff as:
- I speak English
- I am hungry
- I love you
then it all becomes more complicated....LOL!
Yes, an Anglophone and a Latinophone understand each other perfectly when talking about such abstract issues as....the mutual intelligibility of languages.....but when it comes to basic stuff as:
- I speak English
- I am hungry
- I love you
then it all becomes more complicated....LOL!
>>Yes, an Anglophone and a Latinophone understand each other perfectly when talking about such abstract issues as....the mutual intelligibility of languages.....but when it comes to basic stuff as:
- I speak English
- I am hungry
- I love you
then it all becomes more complicated....LOL!<<
Yep, in cases like these, what is used in other Germanic languages is often much closer to what is used in English than what is used in various Romance language. For example, in German these respectively are:
"Ich spreche Englisch."
"Ich habe Hunger."
"Ich liebe dich."
Compare with, say:
"Je parle anglais."
"J'ai faim."
"Je t'aime."
In these simple everyday cases, it is clear that the German phrases are much closer to the English ones than the French ones are. Of course, these are too simple and too few in number to make any real conclusions from, but even still, they do illustrate this.
- I speak English
- I am hungry
- I love you
then it all becomes more complicated....LOL!<<
Yep, in cases like these, what is used in other Germanic languages is often much closer to what is used in English than what is used in various Romance language. For example, in German these respectively are:
"Ich spreche Englisch."
"Ich habe Hunger."
"Ich liebe dich."
Compare with, say:
"Je parle anglais."
"J'ai faim."
"Je t'aime."
In these simple everyday cases, it is clear that the German phrases are much closer to the English ones than the French ones are. Of course, these are too simple and too few in number to make any real conclusions from, but even still, they do illustrate this.