English - a language of high-strangeness

Adam   Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:48 pm GMT
Admit it. English is probably the strangest Indo-European language in existence. Here are some reasons why -



Here's some of the strangeness of English that you discover when you wash away the soil and examine its roots.

The bulk of the core vocabulary of English is made up of recognizable Indo-European root words, shared by most languages from Iceland to India. But there also are a number of words from a hypothetical "Northwest European" provenance, which would be a cluster in the Indo-European family that comprises the ancestral tongues of the Italic, Celtic, Baltic, Slavic, and Germanic languages. These words presumably descend from a common Bronze Age culture, and they consist of roots not found elsewhere in Indo-European languages, or which have different meanings in them. The vocabulary itself is largely cultural -- many of the words are agricultural terms or names of animals and plants found across this range. "Grain," "apple," "sow" (the pig) and "seed" are among them. But we can't know whether these words were borrowed from some long-extinct language of the pre-Indo-European inhabitants of these lands, whether they developed independently, or whether they were words from within the Proto-Indo-European lexicon that have been lost by all the other languages (this seems the least likely explanation).

English is a Germanic language, under the French, but a surprising number of our most basic words are unique to the Germanic languages -- "bath," "boat," "drink," "drive," "evil," "finger," "hand," "sea," and possibly "earth" and "little."

Learning an ancient tongue brings strangeness into the world. The familiar turns out to be exotic. Take colors, for instance. "Frigg Spinning the Clouds" (left) is blue. Blue is blue, right? The word ought to be recognizable and unchanging over millennia. But names of colors turn out to be among the most slippery words. I had already encountered Homer's "wine-dark" -- oinopos -- an adjective which Homer uses 17 times of the sea and twice of oxen, and Sophocles uses once to describe someone's arm. And ancient Greek references to the star Sirius, an icy blue to us, as "red." When I started reading Anglo-Saxon, I saw that the spectrum of color there, too, was not divided as it is now. In Beowulf, yellow is the color of linden wood (used to make shields). The favorite color-adjective for gold, however, is red.

Many surviving color words from Old English -- dun, wan, sallow, bleak, dusky, swarthy, bright, murky, dark -- refer to colors which are not hues. These words have more to do with chroma (reflectivity, brightness, quality of light) than with hue (wavelength). We tend to think of color only as hue. Out of all this you can get an insight into that world. Look around you and subtract all the artificial, man-made pigments from your world. Then look at what is left, and you may see why glitter and dark mattered more than pink and purple in naming what you see. Northern Europe through most of the seasons is a landscape of brown, gray, and dull green. The eruptions of color in spring and fall must have been brief and amazing, with an almost hallucinogenic intensity.

Old English brun and hwit both meant "bright, shining," though now both are used to mean hues (although we still speak of "burnished" wood or metal). One of the knottiest linguistic problems in Old English is blaec, which is the common ancestor of the seemingly irreconcilable modern words black and bleach. The Old English word seems to have been used to refer to a type of colorlessness.


Numbers, also, are surprisingly strange. English, like many other Germanic languages, retains traces of a base-12 number system. This duodecimal system, according to one authority, is "perhaps due to contact with Babylonia." The most obvious instance is "eleven" and "twelve" which ought to be the first two numbers of the "teens" series. Their Old English forms, enleofan and twel(eo)f(an) are more transparent: "leave one" and "leave two." Old English also had hund endleofantig for 110 and hund twelftig for 120. One hundred often was hund teantig. The -tig formation ran through 12 cycles, and could have bequeathed us numbers "eleventy" (110) and "twelfty" (120) had it endured, but already during the Old English period it was being obscured. However, in measures of some specific products (including boards and certain types of fish) the "great hundred" of 120 persisted into the 16th century, and hundredweight often meant 112 or 120 pounds.

The Scandinavian branch of the Germanic languages (preserved in Old Icelandic) used hundrað for 120 and þusend for 1,200. Tvauhundrað was 240 and þriuhundrað was 360. Older Germanic legal texts distinguished a "common hundred" (100) from a "great hundred" (120). In Old Norse, the distinction was hundrað tolfrøtt "duodecimal hundred" and hundrað tirøtt "decimal hundred."


www.etymonline.com
SpaceFlight   Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:54 pm GMT
''Admit it. English is probably the strangest Indo-European language in existence. Here are some reasons why -''

Quit this nonsense! Quit complaining about the English language. Why do you keep doing it?
Damian in Edinburgh   Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:00 am GMT
ADAM: why do you never put forward points and arguments and comments that are your own and not those of others merely copied and pasted in here?

You are the most blatant plagiarist I've ever come across.

Anyway, the "strangeness" of English depends on how it is written and how it is spoken. As I've said before, the English Langauge can be either hideous and excruciating......or sublimely exquisite and mellifluous.

Every day I hear our Language delivered with care and respect, and all too often treated in such a way as to be a criminal offence.

I could go on all day with apt descriptive terms on both side of the fence but I have a living to earn and must do my bit to keep the wheels of the Scottish economy spinning. :-)
Brennus   Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:49 am GMT
Adam wrote: "English is probably the strangest Indo-European language in existence."

I think that there is some truth to this but Albanian and Romanian are two oddball languages which certainly rival English for title of "Strangest Indo-European Language". What could be more strange than Albanian Zog-u for "The bird" and Qumësht-i for "The milk" or Romanian Lumina lunii for "The moonlight"?

Some people might include all of the Celtic languages too (Welsh, Breton, Irish, Scotch Gaelic). Irish Tá fearg orm - taw far-ugg uh-rum - (I am angry)? Literally "There is anger on me" is a construction not found elsewhere in the Indo-European family.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with everything else in Adam's post.
Adam   Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:16 pm GMT
There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple. English muffins were not invented in England or French fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies, while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat. We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square, and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write, but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce, and hammers don't ham? If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So, one moose, 2 meese? One index, two indices? Is cheese the plural of choose?

If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

In what language do people recite at a play, and play at a recital?

Ship by truck, and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell? Park on driveways and drive on parkways? How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites? How can the weather be hot as hell one day and cold as hell another?

When a house burns up, it burns down. You fill in a form by filling it out, and an alarm clock goes off by going on.

When the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible. And why, when I wind up my watch, I start it, but when I wind up this essay, I end it.

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Adam   Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:18 pm GMT
"I could go on all day with apt descriptive terms on both side of the fence but I have a living to earn and must do my bit to keep the wheels of the Scottish economy spinning. :-) "

Which is going pretty disastrously compared with Wales, England and NI.
Fabian B aus D   Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:26 pm GMT
@Adam:
I agree with most you've written, however, there is one particular point in your first statement, which might needs to be corrected. Maybe this is merely a misunderstanding, yet words as "sow", "apple", "seed", "swine" or "grain" do have german equivalents. In Germany we say "Apfel" for "apple", "Sau" for "sow", "Saat" for "seed", "Schwein" for "swine" and "grain" is a latin descendant of "granum".
Of course, also the following words you have mentioned (bath, finger, sea, and so on) can be found in German.

I wont comment the rest of what you have written, for I totally agree with it.
This, however, implies, that German is as strange as English is, because most of your puns (in your second message) are the same in German, too.
I'm awfully sorry, but English is not stranger than any other indo-european language.
Sander   Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:41 pm GMT
(Hint Fabian, Adam never writes his own posts he picks them off websites :)

I agree with Fabian, all the words you posted do have Germanic counterparts...

"sow" = zeug
"apple" = appel
"seed" = zaad
"swine" = zwijn
"grain" = graan
Mxsmanic   Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:48 am GMT
The same people who spend their time complaining about the strangeness of a language are the ones who never master the language. Hypercriticism of a language is a defense mechanism for people who cannot or will not master additional languages. I find that the most successful students are those who treat the quirks of a new language as interesting features to explore, rather than irrational obstacles to learning.
Damian in Edinburgh   Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:52 pm GMT
The varieties of the English Language in the British Isles.....the changing face of the Language as it continues to evolve:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/word4word_20050824.shtml
Brennus   Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:02 pm GMT
Re: Admit it. English is probably the strangest Indo-European language in existence. Here are some reasons why -

As I alluded to in an earlier post, overall English is no less strange than some other extreme members of the Indo-European family: Romanian, Albanian, Celtic, maybe Armenian.

In some domains, English is actually more "logical" or "normal" than these other languages. For example, In Irish, there is no 'thorn' or 'bush' in sceach {skaeh} "thornbush" or 'finger' in lúidín {loo-uh-jeen} "little finger" ; smutachán {smot-tuh-han) "a pug-nosed person" is actually based on the word 'smut' meaning "a stump or chunk of dead wood."Mac tíre {magk cheer-uh} "wolf" is actually derived from an old euphamism for the animal which means "Son of the land." I bplásóg choile {Uh blah-sohg hill-uh} "In a forest glade" is an example of "lenition", a feature lacking in English and most other European languages but found in some West African languages.

Romanian uses lots of suffixes which sometimes result in words less logical than their English equivalents:

Clopotnit'a = Bell Tower from Clopot "Bell."
Pipernit'a = Pepper Shaker from Piper "Pepper."
Tutungiu = Tobacco Dealer from Tutun "Tobacco."
Copilandru = Adolescent boy; Teen-age boy from Copil "Child."
Urechias' = Big-eared; With big ears from Ureche "Ear."

Romanian also uses three words for "tree" when one would do: pom (fruit- bearing), copac (non-fruit-bearing) arbure (generic). Two words for "berry" : murã if it has ridges like a blackberry ; boabã if it is smooth like a huckleberry.




Albanian has Policani mustakoç {po-leet-sah-nee moo-stuh-kohch) "The policeman with the big bushy moustache" based on polican (policeman) and mustaqe (moustache) which is a more bizarre construction than the English equivalent which is pretty straightforward.

So, It's all relevant, really.
Easterner   Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:26 am GMT
The only feature of English that may "objectively" be found strange is the spelling, which still reflects the pronunciation of an earlier age, and may appear to some as unregulated. Otherwise English is a very logical language indeed, if by "logical" we mean "predictable".

Brennus:
<<Romanian uses lots of suffixes which sometimes result in words less logical than their English equivalents:

Clopotnit'a = Bell Tower from Clopot "Bell."
Pipernit'a = Pepper Shaker from Piper "Pepper."
Tutungiu = Tobacco Dealer from Tutun "Tobacco."
Copilandru = Adolescent boy; Teen-age boy from Copil "Child."
Urechias' = Big-eared; With big ears from Ureche "Ear.">>

What makes these words "less logical" than their English equivalents? I think they are perfectly logical if take the internal logic of Romanian as a basis. Such suffixes are somewhat modelled on Slavic examples, as Slavic languages have had the most important "external" influence on Romanian.

I agree with Mxsmanic that you are on the right way to master a language if you take the "spirit" (meaning the internal logic and the peculiarities) of a language just as it is. It may be difficult at first, but is a very rewarding experience on the long run, and will in the end become even enjoyable.
Brennus   Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:00 am GMT
Chinese has been mentioned by some linguists as the epitomy of a logical language or at least the closest thing you're going to get to a logical language in natural human speech.

The English words here : Bell tower, tobacco dealer etc. are certainly more like their Chinese equivalents whereas the Romanian ones are not using flexional endings. Chinese has shed of most of the flexional forms that its ancestor once had (several thousand years ago).

There is an artificial (constructed language) called Loglan invented in 1960 whose grammar is based soley on logical principals. It is when you study a language like Loglan that you realize that most of us don't really think "logically" even though we think we do. Loglan has been changed a little since then and renamed Lojban (Kind of unfortunately. You can find information on both languages on the internet although the best article about it is in the June 1960, issue of "Scientific American."
Easterner   Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:42 am GMT
<<Chinese has been mentioned by some linguists as the epitomy of a logical language or at least the closest thing you're going to get to a logical language in natural human speech. >>

I know a little Mandarin, and I also have the impression that it is syntactically very clear and logical. However, I'm a little confused, because this does not seem to be true semantically. The language book takes the sentence "Wo yao xue zhongwen" to show how many meanings it can have: "I want to learn Chinese", "I would like to learn Chinese", "I have to learn Chinese", "I had to learn Chinese" (of course, you can use the modifier "la" for past tense), etc. I guess the speakers can rely on the context in such cases.
imran khan   Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:31 pm GMT
hi
sir
this is imran ali khan from india i want to learn english i know very well but i want more things to learn but one this when ever i speak in front of some person i get stuck thats my big problem so what i have to take to eat things pls send me replay my email id is imrankhan302003@yahoo.com