Variacion de las vocales en espanol

Johnathan Mark   Thu May 18, 2006 4:11 pm GMT
Hay variacion regional de la pronunciacion de las vocales espanoles? Conozco la o-->u de las islas Canarias (cuchillo-->cuchillu), pero existen otros ejemplos?

Gracias.
Johnathan Mark   Thu May 18, 2006 4:20 pm GMT
vocales espanolas, quiero decir
Yes   Thu May 18, 2006 4:53 pm GMT
Yes. In Andalucia (Southern Spain), they don't pronounce consonants on the ends of words, so there is no difference in pronunciation between 'escuchar' and 'escuchad', for example. Equally, to have a plural, they make the final vowel longer. So, in Standard Spanish, it's like this:

la persona -> las personas

But in Andalucian Spanish, it's pronounced like this:

la persona -> là personà

Another significant difference is the pronunciation of 'c' and 'z'. In Nothern and Central 'c' before 'e' and 'i', and 'z' are pronounced like 'th' in English. But Andalucia and much of Latin America, that pronunciation has merged with 's'.
Benjamin   Thu May 18, 2006 4:55 pm GMT
Sorry, that was me.
Johnathan Mark   Thu May 18, 2006 4:59 pm GMT
"Another significant difference is the pronunciation of 'c' and 'z'. In Nothern and Central 'c' before 'e' and 'i', and 'z' are pronounced like 'th' in English. But Andalucia and much of Latin America, that pronunciation has merged with 's'."

Pregunte de las vocales--pero esto es intersante tambien.

No es la /s/ Andaluz mas como una aspiracion?

las personas-->lah personah.
Mitch   Fri May 19, 2006 8:05 pm GMT
According to one source I read about Spanish in Ecuador:

Because Quechua is so widely spoken, and because this language has a simple three-vowel system, the Spanish of the highlands tends to heighten /o/ to /u/ and /e/ to /i/.
JR   Thu May 25, 2006 2:06 am GMT
>>Another significant difference is the pronunciation of 'c' and 'z'. In Nothern and Central 'c' before 'e' and 'i', and 'z' are pronounced like 'th' in English. But Andalucia and much of Latin America, that pronunciation has merged with 's'.<<

I have heard the Spanish lisp before, especially since Spaniards tend to talk at high speeds, the lisp sometimes carries over. Like in the sentence:

"Pero no se puede decir que la educación no tiene caso"
is often pronnounced like
"Pero no se puede decir que la educathion no tiene catho"

By the way, to do the ñ, just hold ALT and type 164
For Ñ its (ALT+165)

I noticed you didn't have the eñe on your title
Luis Zalot   Thu May 25, 2006 3:18 am GMT
JR wrote;

"Pero no se puede decir que la educación no tiene caso"
is often pronnounced like
"Pero no se puede decir que la educathion no tiene catho"

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I wrote;

What about "decir" ? Isn't it Dethir? In standard-Castilian that's how it would be pronounced.

Cazo? pronounced as "catho" WHICH means a "ladle" or "glue-pot."

Caso (=casso) with the sibilant 's' in place.

Cazo (=catho) sounds aspirated.


I agree, Spaniards do speak quickly. But, to me they're understandable.
Especially if you see T.V.E (you'll notice) Also, I've heard personal encounters and I still understand them without a flaw. I'm Mexican by the way, I guess it just varies from person to person.
Luis Zalot   Thu May 25, 2006 3:23 am GMT
JR wrote;

"Pero no se puede decir que la educación no tiene caso"
is often pronnounced like
"Pero no se puede decir que la educathion no tiene catho"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wrote;

What about "decir" ? Isn't it Dethir? In standard-Castilian that's how it would be pronounced.

Cazo? pronounced as "catho" WHICH means a "ladle" or "glue-pot."

Caso (=casso) with the sibilant 's' in place.

Cazo (=catho) sounds aspirated.


I agree, Spaniards do speak quickly. But, to me they're understandable.
Especially if you see T.V.E (you'll notice) Also, I've heard personal encounters and I still understand them without a flaw. I'm Mexican by the way, I guess it just varies from person to person.
Luis Zalot   Thu May 25, 2006 3:36 am GMT
Johnathan Mark, WROTE:

Hay variacion regional de la pronunciacion de las vocales espanoles? Conozco la o-->u de las islas Canarias (cuchillo-->cuchillu), pero existen otros ejemplos?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"la o-->u de las islas Canarias (cuchillo-->cuchillu)"

My theory or speculation about this would have to be the following: the Canary Islands are close to the Island of Sardinia and they too apply the same formula " o-->u " For example;

Gratzias, Marcu per tua informatzione. (Sardu)

{I've seen "thank you" in Sardinian in this manner as well; "grassias, gratsias"}

Gracias, Marcos por tu informacion. (Spanish, written)

Grasias, Marcos por tu informasion. (Spanish, pronunciation of the americas) *sometimes with the sibilant 's' on (ce/ci/za)

Grathias, Marcos por tu informathion. (Castilian, Pronunciation)

Grazie, Marco per tua informazione (Italian, written)

Gratzie, Marco per tua informatzione (Italian's pronunciation)
Luis Zalot   Thu May 25, 2006 3:59 am GMT
Addendum,

I meant in the "Belaric islands" (I suppose, the canary Islands may have adopted " o-->u " from the Portuguese or Dialect of Spain or perhaps Sardinian? These are just speculations.
Johnathan Mark   Thu May 25, 2006 11:44 am GMT
The pronunciation of /s/ as th, if consistent, could also be attributed to 'el ceceo', found above all in coastal Andalucia, the pronuncation of c,s, and z as th. This is opposed to 'el seseo', found in inland Andalucia and most of the Americas, which pronounces all as if they were s, and the distinction, found in Castilla and the rest of northern Spain.

seseo ceceo distinction

casar casar cathar casar
cazar casar cathar cathar
gracias grasias grathiath grathias

Luis, isn't Catalan spoken on the Balearic Islands?

The chief influence on Canary Spanish is said to be Andaluz, as they share many of the same characteristics, but perhaps the o-->u (which I failed to mention occurs only at the end of words) could be attributed to another influence.

Thank you, Mitch for the info on the Quechua vowel scheme. Is "three vowel Spanish" spoken by those for whom Spanish is a first language, or only by native Quechua speakers.
Johnathan Mark   Thu May 25, 2006 12:27 pm GMT
That didn't turn out so well.

Orthographically--casar, cazar, gracias
Seseo--casar, casar, grasias
Ceceo--cathar, cathar, grathiath
Distintion--casar, cathar, grathias

Sorry
JGreco   Thu May 25, 2006 4:05 pm GMT
"The chief influence on Canary Spanish is said to be Andaluz, as they share many of the same characteristics, but perhaps the o-->u (which I failed to mention occurs only at the end of words) could be attributed to another influence."

As I mention before in previous posts in the Canary Islands the majority of migrants either came from Andalucia, Galicia, or Portugal. The Canary Islands were equally influenced by Castellano Andaluciano, Gallego, and Portugues which greatly influenced the spanish spoken in the Caribbean areas of Latin America.
JGreco   Thu May 25, 2006 4:05 pm GMT
"The chief influence on Canary Spanish is said to be Andaluz, as they share many of the same characteristics, but perhaps the o-->u (which I failed to mention occurs only at the end of words) could be attributed to another influence."

As I mention before in previous posts in the Canary Islands the majority of migrants either came from Andalucia, Galicia, or Portugal. The Canary Islands were equally influenced by Castellano Andaluciano, Gallego, and Portugues which greatly influenced the spanish spoken in the Caribbean areas of Latin America.