Learning to UNDERSTAND languages vs. learning English

Viri Amaoro   Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:44 pm GMT
Dear Benjamin,

You're the first Esperantist I encounter here. I'am pleased. Unfortunately I myself do not speak Esperanto, for various reasons, including lack of "incentive" to learn the language: I don´t know anyone who speaks it, I find it difficult to start all by myself, alone, learning from the Internet, printing little lessons of the language etc.

I think that's one the main problems of Esperanto - the relatively few speakers (in real life, face-to-face contact) are so thinly spread as to reduce very much the efectiveness of the language.

Anyway, I do identify strongly with the ideals of the Esperanto movement and with the mystique of Zamenhof's ideals. I know the language and it's history for many years since I was a teenager and I also have thought a lot about the role a language such as this should have in the international stage and how this could be achieved.

I think this is why Esperanto has such an apeal to idealistic people: it encourages feedback; being so simple and rational, everybody thinks it's great and how good it would be if the world would adopt it.
But the language today still lacks that decisive push, that "critical mass" of speakers to set in motion a dynamic of use of the language.

For all of this, I've allways thought of start learning Esperanto and allways found myself discoureged for not knowing anyone that actually speaks it.

It's like a car engine you feel it really has potential, it looks just has it can deliver power but as soon you start the engine it goes dead.

What can we do about it?...
Benjamin   Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:00 am GMT
Hi Viri — nice to hear from you! ^_^

You'll actually find that relatively few people within the Esperanto Movement today still want Esperanto to become the international auxiliary language, which everyone learns. These days, it's usually seen as the 'dear language' (kara lingvo) of a small but highly international group of people — realistically, if an organisation such as the European Union were to adopt Esperanto officially and start imposing it on everyone, a lot of use would be opposed. I have to say, I'm not really sure that I want everyone in the world to learn Esperanto, although I'm always pleased to find new individuals who are interested in it.

Unfortunately, my Esperanto isn't as good as it could be, although this thread has suddenly inspired me to want to learn it better again. Ideally, I'd like to be able to identify myself as primarily an 'Esperantist' over any regional, national or continental identity, although I don't feel as though I know the language well enough yet, nor have I fully embraced the 'Esperanto culture' enough yet to do so.
Viri Amaoro   Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:32 am GMT
Benjamin, do you personally know any esperanto-speaking person? Have you ever spoke esperanto with someone? I think it is very difficult to find someone who speaks Esperanto.
The felling I have is that for every esperantist there are 50 or 100 sympathizers. The language has more potential than people think, it just needs a major oportunity, as I said, some sort of international vanguard movement that really pushes the use of Esperanto.
By the way, what is your native language?
Benjamin   Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:57 am GMT
Unfortunately, I don't know any Esperanto-speaking people in real life. However, there are various Esperanto societies I could join and Esperanto conferences I could attend, but I don't feel as though I'm fluent enough in the language yet to do so.

I totally agree that there are probably about 50 sypathisers for every Esperantist. The estimates for the number of speakers range from about 100,000 to about 6 million, so there is no clear idea for how many there actually are. There are also thought to be about 1,000 native Esperanto speakers.

My native language is English and I live in England; I can speak French much better than Esperanto. You?
Viri Amaoro   Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:58 pm GMT
My native language is portuguese and I live in Portugal. Besides portuguese, I speak passable English (but my reading skills are much better)and I understand and read Spanish and French well.
But no Esperanto.
Sigma   Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:09 pm GMT
Posiblemente los Anglo-Sajones no nos obligan a hablar Inglés poniendo navajas en nuestros cuellos, o amanezandonos de muerte, pero dada la influencia politica y socioeconómica de los paises Anglo-parlantes, quien no habla Inglés esta en una clara desventaja competitiva (aún estando en un país de habla no Sajona, o en el propio país de uno, ejemplo; Québec, la mayoría los Anglo Canadienses (excepto en ciertos en ciertos cargos públicos, por obvias razones) pueden ser competitivos laboralemente sin hablar Francés, pero los Québequenses no pueden ser competitivos laboralmente si no hablan Inglés, a pesar de que Canadá tiene estatus oficial para el Inglés y el Francés) y eso es una forma de imponernos de una forma indirecta pero a la vez muy efectiva el uso del Inglés y la vez su cultura.

Esto a su vez va causando una asimilación de otras culturas mas débilies y sin mucha presencia internacional en el ámbito lingüístico (ej.. Escandinavia, Los Países Bajos (Holanda), y algunas nacionas Africanas y Asiáticas) a la cultura Anglo-Sajona, lo cual no es del todo malo, pero toda cultura es valiosa sin importar que tan débil sea esta, es por eso que es una verdadera tristeza el ratio de asimilación actual de dichas culturas.
Sigma   Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:12 pm GMT
* en ciertos, fué un error de dedo
Sigma   Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:23 pm GMT
Jav : « American GI's torturing non English speaking people »
Tu ne crois pas si bien dire : Vietnam, Iraq...

No es para nadie secreto que los marines de Estados Unidos han torturado gente inocente en sus guerras, aunque aquí el hecho no fuese debido a que esta gente era no Anglo-parlante.

Jav : « Not to mention the Anglo-Saxon hordes in central Asia and South America. »
Peut-être pas des hordes, mais des bases miltaires, oui !

Recordemos el término "República Bananera" usado pare referirse con desprecio a los países de América Latina; este concepto fue acuñado, debido a que la economía de la América Centra principalmente dependía, de los ingresos que recibía por parte de la "United Fruit Company" perteneciente a Estados Unidos.
Sigma   Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:25 pm GMT
You could try comunicating in other languages, I speak Dutch,English, and German

Esto sujeto me recuerda a Sander
Jav   Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:56 pm GMT
Thanks to Benjamin (not greg) I'm able to reply,

>>He's suggesting that Americans have been torturing non-English-speaking people in Vietnam and Iraq.<<

Like you said Bejamin:
"This point seems to be redundant because the fact that they're being tortured has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they can't speak English." I would add that I think that remark was rather childish and immature.

>>He's saying that some English-speaking countries have military bases in Central Asia and South America. Again, I'm not quite sure of his point here. <<

My remark was meant to be sarcasm on the first post of this topic.But I think I created a great opportunity for a person like greg to spew his Anti American sentiments.Again, rather childish and immature.
fab   Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:44 pm GMT
l'autodenomination de l'Anglais comme unique "langue internationale" est en grande partie un mensonge destiné à renforcer l'importance de cette langue sur sur plan international.
Il y a bien entendu bien d'autre langues au statut aussi international. Espagnol, Arabe, Français, voire Russe.
L'Espagnol est bien parti pour devenir la langue dominante du continent Americain (du nord au sud) relègant l'Anglais en seconde position. En Europe la Français ou l'Allemand on des positions très internationales. L'Espagnol aussi; De plus en plus d'Européens préfèrent apprendre l'Espagnol à la place en en plus de l'Anglais. Par exemple, chez moi je parle Espagnol avec ma colocataire Autrichienne. Lorsque j'etais en voyage aux Etats-Unis les gens s'adressaient a moi plus souvent en Espagnol qu'en Anglais, et celà facillitait la communication.
Guest   Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:10 pm GMT
<<Thanks to Benjamin (not greg) I'm able to reply,>>

WOW! Thanks to God.

<<Este sujeto me recuerda a Sander>>

Absolutely d'accord.
Guest   Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:21 pm GMT
<<for a person like greg to spew his Anti American sentiments.>>

Exactly what we need, another Dutch who wants to be a gringo. Arghhh!
Benjamin   Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:47 pm GMT
Sigma — which English-speaking countries, except for the United States, have any significant political and socioeconomic influence globally today?
Guest   Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:59 pm GMT
sigma has a stigma!!!