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Spanish should be the second official language of USA
Anglo- Sajón, Anglo-Sajona, Anglo-Sajones; en Español son usados para:
1. Para refererirse a todas las personas que tienen el Inglés como lengua materna, mas especificamente a Inglaterra y todas sus ex colonias (Estados Unidos, Canada, Australia, etc), sin hacer distinción alguna de su raza, etnia o lugar de nacimiento.
2. Para nombrar un grupo de tribus primitivas que habitaron Inglaterra en la época antigua.
Yes, I understand why you use the term. I was only implying that you assume too much about cultural similarities between Anglo countries. And what I want to understand, is what you refer to as a "Anglo-Saxon mentality". What are the facets of such a mentality to which you refer so often? When I think of an Anglo mentality, I think of a less familial mentality (Anglo parents here want to rush their kids off right out of high school, and only see them on holidays, whereas Hispanic-Americans are not like that at all), of a "money is everything" mentality, an acute awareness of time, where everthing is done in a rushed manner (don't take time to enjoy your food, live to work, etc) a strong value placed on patriotism, a liberal (in the classical sense) political and economic philosophy, etc. These are things I equate with an "Anglo-Saxon" mentality. And this is what I assume is implied when Fab or Greg describe me as an Anglo-Saxon. I reject such a label, because as a Mexican-American, I have not adopted most of those aspects of mainstream Anglo-culture and mentality. Hispanic-Americans are usually not like that, unless they sell out, and try to be like the Anglos. By the third or fourth generation born in the U.S., they are like this yes. But I am not. Mexican (Hispanic) culture is still very strong in my household, and it influences my life, and its mentality permeates all that I do and think. This is why I object to being strictly categorized as an "Anglo-Saxon". I am an Anglophone, and in many ways, I'm a normal American (English sense) youth, but if you knew me, you would see that I would be more accurately labeled as a Hispanophone-Anglophone, because my domestic culture and mentality is so different from that of the traditional Anglo American. I strongly encourage you to watch a film about Mexican-Americans. You will see how they are a distinct society within a society.
" Evidently, our two "Anglo-Saxon" countries are completely different. "
Knowing both countries I would'nt say that they are "completly different". There are differences and common poiunts.
If you compare two hispanic countries you whould conclude that they are much more different than USA and England.
At least USA and UK share same economic level, majoritary temperate climates, majoritary "white" populations with "ethnic" communities, same kind of reation to business, etc. Let's see two "hispanic countries" :
For exemple Spain and Colombia :
One is a rich first world country, the other is a third world poor country, one has temperate climate (and the food that goes with), the other is a tropical country (almost equatorial) with the way of life that goes with, one has a white population, the other has a majoritary mestizo population with huge black, white and native minorities. One is a stable and progressive democracy, the other is unfortunally continusly under gerrilla civil war.
dispite of that both countries are rigthly considered "hispanic countries".
<<One is a stable and progressive democracy, the other is unfortunally continusly under gerrilla civil war. >>
Fab, really both are democracies. It's not a civil war, it's a war against 'narco-terrorism'. In a similar way Spain have fought againt ETA and that doesn't transform it in a civil war rather it's a war against 'separatism-terrorism'.
<<dispite of that both countries are rigthly considered "hispanic countries". >>
I understand your point but 'Hispanic' has more a sense of language than 'Anglo-saxon' which has more a sense of culture although it is uses as well to refer to English language.
<<If you compare two hispanic countries you whould conclude that they are much more different than USA and England.>>
In the same way I could compare Jamaica and England both with 'Anglo-saxon' influence. Here you will find the same gap.
Fab, I suppose you could claim that all of the British Commonwealth countries share a strong cultural similarity with the U.K. But, the U.S. is an entirely different story. The U.S. broke away from Britain in the 1700s, and the for the last three centuries, has developed a distinct culture, with its foundations lying with a sense of "anti-British" patriotism. And on top of that, the U.S. has experienced immigration from foreign, non-Anglo cultures on an unprecendented level, while most of the British Dominions mainly recieved continued settlement by colonists from the British Isles. Much of what became the U.S. was formerly held by and populated with by foreign cultures. Nearly all of the southwestern U.S. was once part of Mexico, and the Mexican imprint on food, architecture, and other things of that nature are strong in these parts. The U.S. has for centuries recieved boatloads after boatloads of Irish, Polish, German, Scandanavian, Italian, and Portuguese immigrants, who all added their own cultural influences in the melting pot that would shape modern America. More recently, we have recieved a tidal wave of immigrants from Latin America, who are still in the process of re-shaping America's cultural foundations. On a smaller yet still noteworthy scale, we have recieved immigrants from Greece, Eastern Europe, East Asia, the Philipines, and the Middle East.
The U.S., at its very birth as a nation, was rooted in a sense of nationalism based on a mindset against all things "British". From that point forth, Americans did their utmost to distance themselves from all things "British", not wanting to be considered as "Brits". This, combined with centuries of geographic alienation from England, along with centuries of foreign cultural contributions, created a strong drift from the culture of Britain. The dominions like Canada and Australia did not experience this. So, you cannot compare us to those former colonies of the British Empire. It's like comparing apples to oranges. I would still say that Spain has more in common with Mexico than the U.K. does with the U.S., even after considering the differences in racial compositions. Culture has nothing to do with how prosperous a country is. So, despite differences in cuisine (the same in Anglophone countries), and some regional dress based on native traditions in outskirts, Mexico is very similar to Spain. They have a very similar mentality. They both have fiestas, siestas, and paseos. They both share a strongly Catholic heritage. (the majority of Spanish kids are still enrolled in Catholic school, even though society has become more secular). They both have the "caliente" and "machismo" spirit. The style of architecture is very similar. Traditional dress is very similar. There are many similarities. The same is true between Australia and the U.K., or the other dominions. But I can't say the same for the U.S.
Or possibly an even better example would be to compare Spain with, say, Argentina or Uruguay (rather similar to comparing Britain with Australia or New Zealand, in my view). Comparing Spain with Colombia to try and demonstrate that 'Hispanic' countries are more different from each-other from 'Anglo-Saxon' countries isn't exactly fair; as Aldvs said, we could also compare Britain with Jamaica.
As for cuisine... I have to say that I don't really know what people eat in the US — I usually imagine a large variety of things taken from all over the world (much like in Northern Europe). What I do know though is that food is Britain is very similar to food in Germany, including both the traditional food and the fact that restaurants serving food originating from all over the world can be found all over the place.
« At least USA and UK share same economic level, »
Not quite... but on the grand scheme of things globally, one can say the same about the rest of Western Europe. The average annual purchasing-power per capita in the US is about $45,000 USD, whilst it's about $30,000 USD in Britain, Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden and Finland. So in this respect, Britain is more similar to many other European countries (although the difference still isn't that great).
« majoritary temperate climates, »
Florida? Texas? California? Oklahoma? Alaska? And the climate and physical landscape of Britain is far more similar to that of most of the rest of North-Western Europe than to the vast majority of the United States.
« majoritary "white" populations with "ethnic" communities, »
But it's the same in most of the rest of Western Europe. And actually, I'd maintain that Britain is more similar to many other Western European countries than to the US in this regard, as a much greater majority of the population is 'white', the vast majority of 'non-white' people being descended from immigrants who came in the last 50 years, many of whom are Muslims... it's a similar story in many Western European countries, but relatively different in the US.
« same kind of reation to business »
I wouldn't know anything about that, sorry.
<<But it's the same in most of the rest of Western Europe. And actually, I'd maintain that Britain is more similar to many other Western European countries than to the US in this regard, as a much greater majority of the population is 'white', the vast majority of 'non-white' people being descended from immigrants who came in the last 50 years, many of whom are Muslims... it's a similar story in many Western European countries, but relatively different in the US.>>
Yep, and unlike Britain, most Americans are no longer of English ancestry alone. Most so-called "White" Americans represent a cross between southern and northern Europeans, or if they are of northern European ancestry alone, chances are they are a mix of Irish, German, Swedish, and many others. 30% of the population is not European, but black and mixed persons from Latin America, or Asians or Pacific Islanders. If you walk around in a big city like Los Angeles, you will find people of every color imaginable, and those that are British in origin would actually be a minority.
<<majoritary temperate climates, »
As Benjamin said, our two climates, terrain, and weather could not be any different. America stretches across an entire continent, from one ocean to the other, and one can find just about any climate imaginable here. The only area that might possibly resemble Britain's climate is Washington, which is a small, remote state in the far Northwest.
« same kind of reation to business »
If you are referring to financial business, then yes. Americans have that strong entrepreneurial drive, and we live to work, as do other "Anglo-Saxon" peoples.
<<Or possibly an even better example would be to compare Spain with, say, Argentina or Uruguay (rather similar to comparing Britain with Australia or New Zealand, in my view). Comparing Spain with Colombia to try and demonstrate that 'Hispanic' countries are more different from each-other from 'Anglo-Saxon' countries isn't exactly fair; as Aldvs said, we could also compare Britain with Jamaica. >>
Exactly.
« and we live to work, as do other "Anglo-Saxon" peoples. »
As do the Germans, at least stereotypically.
As for the strong entrepreneurial drive, it's certainly a good thing which I associate with the United States (read: the American Dream), but I'm not quite sure if it applies here so much yet (read: the class system) — it seems to be changing though, as I remember at my old school they were always talking about how to be an 'entrepreneur', lol.
"Actually, I don't think that the United Kingdom has an 'official language' as such either. If I remember correctly, several languages, including English, Welsh, Lowland Scots, Scottish-Gaelic, Irish, Ulster-Scots and Cornish are mentioned, but none are exactly 'official'. "
English is the official language of Britain.
Le Royaume-Uni et les États-Unis sont deux pays vraiment différents, mais vraiment anglo-saxons aussi.
Bien sûr on peut considérer les choses par le petit bout de la lorgnette : système non-métrique (jusqu'à récemment pour le RU) et la virgule à la place du point pour les chiffres et vice-versa, par exemple.
Mais il y a aussi la langue et les cultures qui s'y rattachent, le communautarisme socio-ethnique, l'absence de suffrage direct pour élire les chefs d'État (EU) ou de gouvernement (RU), les systèmes juridiques, une tendance certaine au sectarisme religieux et au conformisme social, la faiblesse de la culture politique au sein de la classe ouvrière ou même des classes moyennes, l'isolationnisme culturel, le refus de la coopération inter-étatique ou même de la simple multipolarité.
Mais le plus grave, c'est l'absence d'une cuisine digne de ce nom !
;)
Adam : « English is the official language of Britain. ».
Même à Bolton ?
""Actually, I don't think that the United Kingdom has an 'official language' as such either. If I remember correctly, several languages, including English, Welsh, Lowland Scots, Scottish-Gaelic, Irish, Ulster-Scots and Cornish are mentioned, but none are exactly 'official'. "
Britain has SIX official languages - its major one - English and 5 minority languages which are still official languages. They are, n order of the most speakers, -
UK's official minority languages
1: Welsh
2: Gaelic (Scottish)
3: Gaelic (Irish)
4: Scots
5: Ulster Scots
In the next few years, Cornish will also be made an official language of the UK.
"Not quite... but on the grand scheme of things globally, one can say the same about the rest of Western Europe. The average annual purchasing-power per capita in the US is about $45,000 USD, whilst it's about $30,000 USD in Britain, Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden and Finland. So in this respect, Britain is more similar to many other European countries (although the difference still isn't that great). "
World's richest countries (GDP per capita/US dollars/Purchasing Power Parity/2004)
Luxembourg 56230 1
Norway 52030 2
Switzerland 48230 3
United States 41400 4
Denmark 40650 5
Iceland 38620 6
Japan 37180 7
Sweden 35770 8
Ireland 34280 9
Britain 33940 10
High income: OECD 29360 33470 11
-----------------
Finland 32790 12
Austria 32300 13
High income 32040 14
Netherlands 31700 15
Belgium 31030 16
Germany 30120 17
France 30090 18
Canada 28390 19
European Monetary Union (those with the Euro) 27630 20
Australia 26900 21
Hong Kong, China 26810 22
Italy 26120 23
Singapore 24220 24
Spain 21210 25
New Zealand 0 20310 26
Cyprus 17580 27
Israel 17380 28
Greece 16610 29
Britain is the 10th richest country in the world and is - by a quite a large distance - the richest large European country.
http://www.finfacts.com/biz10/globalworldincomepercapita.htm
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