British accent

Chris   Sun Jul 16, 2006 2:23 pm GMT
>> 28) Use glottal stops to replace word-final T's. <<

Actually I think it would be more effective to replace them only if the next word begins with a consonant.
Damian in London   Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:39 pm GMT
Guys - I think some of you need some reality checks about the "British accent".....there is NO such thing in itself.

If you say "British accent" then you have to be a whole lot more specific as we've discussed on Antimoon time and time again. These islands are literally awash with accents and dialects, and if you have in mind the sort of Queen Lilibet or Hugh Grant or Tony Blur versions as as being standard speak (well, in England anyway) then.....forget it. T'aint!

I'm currently here in London for the forseeable future and already (after just 7 hours I'm missing my native Edinburgh accent all around me). London is just one hotpotch of accents from here, there and everywhere. I'm sharing a flat in East Finchley, North London, with a guy from Middlesbrough (a Geordie! Wahay! familar with that...great) and a guy from Gloucester...a really cool sort of West Country English English type burr of a twang...nice!

Don't know why an American would want to change his accent to British..or why anybody would want to change to anything from their own native one. Just be yourself for (BLEEP) sake!

It's 32C in London and (BLEEP) boiling! Cheers!
Chris   Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:05 pm GMT
Yeah, of course there's no accent that is *the* "British accent". What I was describing is simply the easiest British accent for an American to learn to speak, and be able to convincingly sustain for a long period of time and one that sounds stereotypically British. It's not quite RP, because that's such a difficult accent (for an American at least) to pronounce because most of the sounds are almost identical to General American, it's mostly the point of articulation that is different. So, the idea is to modify many of the vowel sounds to make as many words sound as different as possible to distance the accent from General American (but still sound British), or else it tends to fall apart quickly, and the speaker will tend to resort back to a completely General American accent. So, that's why it borrows some features from ultra-conservative RP and others from Estuary, the two accents that sound most like "the" British accent to Americans.

>> Don't know why an American would want to change his accent to British..or why anybody would want to change to anything from their own native one. Just be yourself for (BLEEP) sake! <<

Well, the accent that I described would be just for acting (for an American audience), or for when you just want to speak (to Americans) with a British accent. Because of its unusual combination of conservative RP, and Estuary, and other influences, I would imagine it would sound quite odd to someone from Britain, but it sounds very nice to American ears. If you really want to speak with a British accent to people from Britain, you'll have to listen to lots of accent tapes, and probably practice for several years, because even many trained actors don't do a very convincing job of another accent even with a dialect coach.
Guest   Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:27 pm GMT
yo, damian are all your room mates gays ? lol, or you didnt tell them yet your secret, but is so obvious that you dont need to tell them , lol
Guest   Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:47 pm GMT
>> >> 28) Use glottal stops to replace word-final T's. <<

Actually I think it would be more effective to replace them only if the next word begins with a consonant. <<

Why not just glottalize all the t's?
Travis   Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:28 pm GMT
>>28) Use glottal stops to replace word-final T's. <<

Actually, that's very common in North American English dialects, with the exception that it generally does not occur if the next word starts with a vowel, as then such will most likely be flapped instead.
Guest   Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:30 pm GMT
>> Why not just glottalize all the t's? <<

Then it would sound like a Cockney accent, which is a bit harder to do, but much easier than RP.
Travis   Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:30 pm GMT
>>Actually, that's very common in North American English dialects, with the exception that it generally does not occur if the next word starts with a vowel, as then such will most likely be flapped instead.<<

One note though is that such will normally only happen if said /t/ is not preceded by an obstruent, where then instead of glottal-stopping or flapping such will either be realized as plain [t] or simply elided, depending on the particular case.
Chris   Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:39 pm GMT
>> One note though is that such will normally only happen if said /t/ is not preceded by an obstruent, where then instead of glottal-stopping or flapping such will either be realized as plain [t] or simply elided, depending on the particular case. <<

Then for this accent, make sure you always pronounce it as plain [t] after obstruents, and never elide it.
Guest   Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:49 am GMT
Is it true that in Cockney, they pronounce words like "the" as "vuh"? I tried pronouncing it like that, but it just sounds really weird.
Guest   Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:53 am GMT
>> Presto! Now you have a British accent. <<

Correction; Presto! You now have a Dick Van Dyke British accent.
Gabriel   Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:38 am GMT
<<1) First remember to over-enunciate each and every one of your words carefully and clearly. This is critical.>>

False. Smoothing, a quite common phenomenon in RP, would hardly qualify as "over-enunciation".

2) Open your mouth a little wider, and move your lips more.

<<3) Pronounce all your t's as [t].>>

False. Pronounce the word "atlas" or "Gatwick" with [t_h] and you won't be using RP. There are unreleased and glottalized t's in RP, even occasionally voiced.

<<4) Don't pronounce your r's at the end of syllables. You'll have to listen to a movie to get it right, or you'll sound like you have a Boston accent or something else. In the middle of words, such as, "very", pronounce the r as a "d" instead. Make sure you put an "r" where it doesn't belong: when one word ends with a vowel, and the next word starts with a vowel.>>

Someone already commented on this. Using [4] for intervocalic r will make you sound old-fashioned and affected, even in England. Use plain old [r\].

<<5) Round your lips when saying i's (as in "sit")>>

This baffles me. Never heard such a thing from an RP speaker.

<<6) Pronounce "a" before [f], [T], [s], [nt], [ns], [ntS], [nd], [mp] as [A:], and elsewhere alternate between [a] and [E]. Example: at [at] or [Et].>>

Wrong. It's only a subset of those words that are affected by this. "Gaff" is still ["g{f], "ant" is still ["{nt] "stand" is still ["st{nd], etc.

<<12) Pronounce the "ou" before "r" as [{:]>>

Again a confusing rule. Can you give examples of this?

<<13) Pronounce hurry, and furry with [@].>>

Do not. /V/ and /@/ contrast in RP. Use /V/ in "hurry", with the allophone [a] as a possibility as mentioned before. As far as I know, "furry" has [3:] and does not rhyme with "hurry" in RP.

<<14) Pronounce Mary, merry, and marry with [{].>>

As others have said, do not do this for RP.

<<16) Pronounce "what" as if it were spelt "hwot">>

If by this you mean using [hw], this only occurs in very careful speech. Most people, even speakers of U-RP, use plain [w].

<<17) In words with an "o" following an "r" and a vowel, put a heavy emphasis on the "o", and pronounce the "r" and the next vowel as though it is part of another word: Example to-morrow should be pronounced as tuh-moe row, with the stress on the "moe".>>

If by "moe" you mean [@U] then this is ill advice once again. "Tomorrow" takes [Q] with no particular emphasis that I'm aware of.

<<18) Pronounce words like "there" as [I@] instead of [E@]. Exception: where: pronounce with [E@].>>

I'd use [E@] or [{@] rather than [I@].

19) Use an intrusive "r". Example: "The idea ruv" for "the idea of"

<<20) Do not use a linking "r". For example: "The car is here": don't pronounce the r in car. >>
Most definitely use linking r there.
Chris   Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:50 am GMT
>> Never heard such a thing from an RP speaker. <<

I never meant it to represent RP, but merely an accent that sounded fairly close to ultra-conservative/heightened RP, with some Estuary as well as NCVS influence in the vowels, to make the accent contrast as much as possible with General American, while still sounding like a British accent. This is to allow the person speaking with the accent to be able to keep it up when speaking long blocks of text.

>> <<13) Pronounce hurry, and furry with [@].>>

Do not. /V/ and /@/ contrast in RP. Use /V/ in "hurry", with the allophone [a] as a possibility as mentioned before. As far as I know, "furry" has [3:] and does not rhyme with "hurry" in RP. <<

Almost all of the vowels in this accent contrast with RP. True, in RP "hurry", and "furry" do not rhyme, but the vowel [@] sounds distinctly "other" to Americans, whereas the [3:] in "furry" sounds almost exactly the same as the American version. Here's a chart of the vowels in this accent contrasted with the vowels in RP. The vowel in RP is listed on the left, and the equivalent in this accent is to the right:
[{] at [a] or [E]; before [f], [T], [s], [nt], [ns], [ntS], [nd], [mp] as [A:]
[Q] on [Q]
[In] In [In] or [Un] (with rounded lips)
[O:] caught, saw [O:]
[aI] I [oI]
[u:] move [UU]
[@U] boat [@U]
[i:] me [EI] or[@I]
[aU] out [@U] or [eU]
[E@] there [I@] or [E@]
[@] the, cup [a] or [A]
[aU]? our,hour [{:] or [e@]
[E] set [@]


>> False. Smoothing, a quite common phenomenon in RP, would hardly qualify as "over-enunciation". <<

To Americans it sounds more clearly enunciated in general.

>> False. Pronounce the word "atlas" or "Gatwick" with [t_h] and you won't be using RP. There are unreleased and glottalized t's in RP, even occasionally voiced. <<

That would sound too much like an American accent, so it's best to pronounce them even in those words, as that's one of the most noticeble differences.

<<14) Pronounce Mary, merry, and marry with [{].>>

>> As others have said, do not do this for RP. <<

True, but [{] in all these words sounds distinctly foreign.

>>
If by this you mean using [hw], this only occurs in very careful speech. Most people, even speakers of U-RP, use plain [w]. <<

Most Americans also merge these, so that would sound identical to an American accent.

<<17) In words with an "o" following an "r" and a vowel, put a heavy emphasis on the "o", and pronounce the "r" and the next vowel as though it is part of another word: Example to-morrow should be pronounced as tuh-moe row, with the stress on the "moe".>>

>> If by "moe" you mean [@U] then this is ill advice once again. "Tomorrow" takes [Q] with no particular emphasis that I'm aware of. <<

Actually I meant [o] in this case. [Q] is too close to the General American pronunciation. And by emphasis, I meant try not to connect the [o] with the r.

<<18) Pronounce words like "there" as [I@] instead of [E@]. Exception: where: pronounce with [E@].>>

>> I'd use [E@] or [{@] rather than [I@]. <<

Either one is good I guess, but [I@] sounds more exotic.

>> <<5) Round your lips when saying i's (as in "sit")>>

This baffles me. Never heard such a thing from an RP speaker. <<

Rounding the lips makes it sound much more unusual. Or even better, pronounce it like an umlauted vowel.

>>
<<20) Do not use a linking "r". For example: "The car is here": don't pronounce the r in car. >>
Most definitely use linking r there <<

Americans would also pronounce the r there, so it is best to leave out r's where they belong, and instead, insert them where they don't belong such as in the word "idea" when it is followed by a vowel.
Pete   Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:51 pm GMT
<<Is it true that in Cockney, they pronounce words like "the" as "vuh"? I tried pronouncing it like that, but it just sounds really weird.>>

Well, It's not weird for them. Eventually, you get used to it all.

<<I never meant it to represent RP, but merely an accent that sounded fairly close to ultra-conservative/heightened RP, with some Estuary as well as NCVS influence in the vowels, to make the accent contrast as much as possible with General American, while still sounding like a British accent. This is to allow the person speaking with the accent to be able to keep it up when speaking long blocks of text.>>

Right, that's it. It's just a made up accent... to sound different. It reminds me when I tried to fake a Spanish accent just for fun, most latin Americans thought it was really good, some even thought I was Spanish. However, when I spoke to some Spaniards in that fake accent, they said it was fucking strange. I never managed to do a perfect Spanish accent, it's quite frustrating, I might add.

<<>> Presto! Now you have a British accent. <<

Correction; Presto! You now have a Dick Van Dyke British accent.>>

-LOL-
Liz   Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:26 pm GMT
>> Why not just glottalize all the t's? <<

>>Then it would sound like a Cockney accent, which is a bit harder to do, but much easier than RP. <<

Why do you think it is easier than RP? Easier for whom? For Americans? For non-native speakers of English?

Glottal stops are much too hard to pronounce for many foreigners (for glottal stops are non-existent in many (European) languages), but are obligatory in (being a distinctive feature of ) Cockney. Therefore the attempt to speak Cockney without glottalising voiceless stops would fail, since that speech would sound completely inauthentic.

As opposed to Cockney speech, glottalisation is only an optional feature of the RP accent. So, this accent (RP) is easier for those who are unable or unwilling to produce glottal stops.

>>28) Use glottal stops to replace word-final T's. <<

Again, it's not a distinctive feature of RP. Many people, especially youngsters do glottalise word-final T-s, though. And it has become part of modified RP. More precisely, not word final T-s, rather pre-consonantal T-s are glottalised. Glottalising your word-final T-s (when the word-final T is followed by a pause or a word with a vowel in word-initial position) makes your speech sound more Estuary than RP.