Southern European arrogance???
To all americans (and others) who think all latin-speaking peoples are all alike, irrespective of language (spanish, portuguese, french, italian) or continent (latin america vs europe):
I've just picked up this thread but for the record I, as a portuguese and a european, would rather have people speaking english to me than spanish. I can state to you that this probably is the opinion of 80-90% of the portuguese people.
Not that I enjoy the proeminence of english, quite the contrary, but we DO NOT like to be adressed to in spanish, specialy if that carries the assumption (and that is almost always the case with english, americans and other northern european types) that somehow the two languages "are prety much the same" and "they all look spanish anyway".
I repeat: the portuguese people DO NOT take kindly being adressed to in spanish, in any situation where other language is available (i.e. english).
To LAA, if you were to adress someone whom you've noticed to be portuguese in spanish instead of english, in the hope of breaking any imaginary ice, I can assure you the vast majority of them would just ignore you and carry on interacting with you in english.
The same goes for any eventual french or italian languages, which we don't speak.
««I can state to you that this probably is the opinion of 80-90% of the portuguese people.»»
This is true! The only time Portuguese do not mind being adressed in Spanish is when they are speaking with a Spaniard or a native Spanish speaker.
««the two languages "are prety much the same" and "they all look spanish anyway"»»
The funny thing is when you answer back in Portuguese!hehe... they swich back to English in the blink of an eye.
(basic recipe of politeness in France, just consist in avoiding the 2 behaviours that are considered ultra-rude for french people : 1. Speaking directly in English without asking if the person know that language
2. Not saying "Bonjour, excusez moi" (hello, I'm sorry) before asking any question. (And saying "merci" after))
This to certain degree true for most latin countries.
Sorry
correction
This is true to certain degree for most latin countries (in the local language naturely).
<<The funny thing is when you answer back in Portuguese!hehe... they swich back to English in the blink of an eye.
Yeah, my dad says he can understand a lot of spoken Spanish, but it doesn't seem to work both ways!
" Yeah, my dad says he can understand a lot of spoken Spanish, but it doesn't seem to work both ways! "
The reason why portuguese may prefer use english than spanish is due to the fact that it is psychologically hard for a portuguese to communicate in his own country with the language of its biggest rival ; Spain.
(The reason why portuguese may prefer use english than spanish is due to the fact that it is psychologically hard for a portuguese to communicate in his own country with the language of its biggest rival ; Spain.)
and of course historical reasons.
((The reason why portuguese may prefer use english than spanish is due to the fact that it is psychologically hard for a portuguese to communicate in his own country with the language of its biggest rival ; Spain.)
and of course historical reasons.)
some what the same as the resentment English feel for the French.
" 2. Not saying "Bonjour, excusez moi" (hello, I'm sorry) before asking any question. (And saying "merci" after)
3. Allez vous faire foutre. "
Yes you must to say also :
4. Tout est bon dans l'oignon mais là, vous en avez assez.
««The reason why portuguese may prefer use english than spanish is due to the fact that it is psychologically hard for a portuguese to communicate in his own country with the language of its biggest rival ; Spain. »»
No, this is not right, it is a silly comment. Portuguese need to learn Spanish to be able to speak Spanish. The fact that Portuguese can understand some Spanish does not give them the ability to speak Spanish.
Now, you tell me why Spanish speakers do not speak in Portuguese. It is as easy for a Spanish speaker to speak in Portuguese as it is for a Portuguese speaker to speak in Spanish isn't it?
To understand the spoken language is easier for a Portuguese to understand Spanish, because of the simple phonology, and this is only true if the Portuguese speaker pays attention and was exposed to the Spanish language previously. But all a Spanish speaker has to do is learn a few nasal sounds, how hard is that?
The Portuguese speaker does not mind being addressed in Spanish by a native Spanish speaker because the conversation will be in PORTUNHOL not Spanish (Portunhol is a mixture of Portuguese and Spanish) with both making an effort to understand each other. Non native speakers are not able to understand Portunhol and why make the effort to speak PORTUNHOL with someone that WILL NOT UNDERSTAND IT if one can speak English?
««The reason why portuguese may prefer use english than spanish »»
Is because Portuguese learn English as a second language, not Spanish.
You must think Portuguese are born with the ability to speak Spanish. LOL
It takes good will for a Portuguese to learn and speak PORTUNHOL, the same for a Spanish speaker.
PORTUNHOL is not Spanish, is a mixture of Portuguese and Spanish.
Gringo
(Is because Portuguese learn English as a second language, not Spanish.)
Why do Portuguese learn English instead of Spanish? Well that is quite simple English functions as a neutral language. Portuguese still feel undermined by even being hinted as being Spanish. With a Spaniard this isn't the case as you said before Portunhol is used. Even though a Portuguese person could learn Spanish in haf the time as that of a non Portuguese speaker and vice versa for a Spaniard with Spanish.
We have seen in other parts of this forum that English speakers prefer to learn Spanish instead of French even though it is the Uk's second language.
History still plays a big roll in which language is learnt and which one is preferred.
PORTUNHOL is not Spanish, is a mixture of Portuguese and Spanish.
And it's native vernacular for all people on Brazilian-Uruguayan border.
It's known as FRONTERIZO.
««Why do Portuguese learn English instead of Spanish? Well that is quite simple English functions as a neutral language. Portuguese still feel undermined by even being hinted as being Spanish.»»
Why Spaniards learn English instead of Portuguese? Same way Portuguese learn English instead of Spanish. English is the language of Business and technology. In Europe all business at an international level is mostly done in English (unless both parties speak another common language).
««Portuguese still feel undermined by even being hinted as being Spanish»»
Ido not agree.
If the Portuguese has the slightest impression the other speaker thinks Portuguese are Spanish speakers, it is not undermined he will feel, he will think the other guy is an ignorant. As plain as that.