Speak American

>I can communicate much more effectively using the standard language.... [Mxsmanic]

Yes, but people can also communicate more effectively when they aren't excessively negative and don't mislead by using gross exaggerations ("a teenager from another planet" and "gangsta English"). It's only fair to give him some credit for how much he has accomplished. I didn't feel inclined to "laugh at him behind his back without his knowledge" -- just to point out that he still needs to work on perfecting his English and to mention a specific error.

I agree with you about avoiding slang and informal spellings in most kinds of writing. Your recommendation that he avoid spellings like 'kinda' was probably helpful. Opinions will differ about where they are appropriate, but outside of chatrooms many persons will object to them. If you or I had picked up Arabic, though -- and even if we tried to avoid that particular kind of inappropriateness -- there's a good chance that we would make far worse errors than any that he has made. He has done well and deserves credit for it.

I'm not exaggerating. The job market, for example, can be highly competitive. Writing as this poster does may result in his cover letter and application instantly reaching the circular file. And once one has a job, the ability to speak and write correctly is still critical for many positions. There are other domains in which proper writing and diction are important. Slang is an optional and largely useless supplement to the standard language, not a substitute for it.

Rest assured, people _will_ laugh at him behind his back. People laugh at other people for far less.

Most of my students do better than he does, in part because they do not presume to master ephemeral slang before mastering the standard language.

"a teenager from another planet"

But men are from Mars and women are from Venus ;)

>I'm not exaggerating.

I believe I see some exaggeration in "a teenager from another planet" and "gangsta English". No one has suggested that he use words like 'kinda' in a job application or in other kinds of formal writing. He himself said later, "Of course, when you write to a principal, you do not use such forms because it is considered informal." We all agree about that.

He is the only one who appears to believe that the level implied by "kinda" is acceptable for this forum. One can expect that he will make similar mistakes in other venues. Worse yet, his standard English is still not correct; the time he spent studying rap lyrics could have been better spent improving his competence in standard English. Slang vs. bad English isn't much of a choice when the situation demands good, standard English.

<<I learned French years ago and I speak it reasonably well, but I still do not use slang or substandard French.>>

Oh no you didn't. You used the "s" word. Unacceptable.

<<In fact, I don't even do this in English, my native language...>>

Well as we already determined, you're a robot, so that's not surprising. And by the way, that's impossible. No one speaks completely "standard."

<<I can communicate much more effectively using the standard language, and I don't have to sound like a junior-high student to do it.>>

Ah, that's fresh. Who doesn't like patronizing comments?

<<Rest assured, people _will_ laugh at him behind his back. People laugh at other people for far less.>>

This seems to be a constant concern for you...

<<I believe I see some exaggeration in "a teenager from another planet" and "gangsta English". No one has suggested that he use words like 'kinda' in a job application or in other kinds of formal writing. He himself said later, "Of course, when you write to a principal, you do not use such forms because it is considered informal." We all agree about that.>>

Exactly.

Mxsmanic sounds like a robot when he talks. He also seems to be fond of calling certain varieties of English ''substandard''. I don't know how I raised this robot.

If I learned a new language I would want a teacher like Mxsmanic - straight, honest and a standard I could usefully imitate and learn from.

I have no problem with his proposing a formal standard for students to aim for, but "teenager from another planet" and "gangsta English" are not what I would call an honest description.

Actually, I think MxManic is just trying to help Bander out,by giving him some constructive criticism, even if it sounds a little judgemental.

You need to use strong words with most students, otherwise they never get the point. They don't generally understand how much slang can grate upon the ears when it is combined with a foreign accent or "foreign-style" errors in grammar and usage, and/or when it is used in inappropriate contexts. Students who rush to speak slang want to be part of the "in" crowd, but in fact they are effectively locking themselves out. When you speak the standard language correctly, you are accepted by just about everyone; when you speak slang, you are rejected by all except the group that speaks that particular flavor of slang. And if you speak slang inappropriately, or incorrectly, or in combination with a foreign accent or typically foreign errors of grammar and usage, even the group that uses that particular type of slang will exclude you, leaving you completely rejected by all speakers.

I still don't use slang in English for this reason, even though English is my native language. I prefer to be accepted generally by everyone to being accepted by only one tiny group. And slang changes from day to day and from one location to another, so it's impossible to use any slang without very severely restricting the community with which you can communicate. Overall, using slang is a net loss, and I advise all students against it.

The terms I use are not exaggerations. The original poster effectively writes himself off the list for many native speakers as soon as he makes his ill-advised attempt to "go native." And people will definitely laugh at him. Foreigners tend to be the butt of jokes as it is, but when they make themselves preferential targets by trying too hard to hide their foreign character, they guarantee ridicule.

Are "lota" and "kinda" really slang? Isn't it common for natives to pronounce "lot of" and "kind of" like that.

Only in careful speech they are articulated as "lot uv" and "kind uv".

>>Are "lota" and "kinda" really slang? Isn't it common for natives to pronounce "lot of" and "kind of" like that.<<

No, they are written representations of what are practically the rule in at least informal (that is, most) spoken North American English. They aren't generally used in formal writing, yes, but formal writing does not at all reflect actual speech in most cases, one must remember, and thus one cannot expect the spoken language to be at all like it in practice.

<<And people will definitely laugh at him. Foreigners tend to be the butt of jokes as it is, but when they make themselves preferential targets by trying too hard to hide their foreign character, they guarantee ridicule.>>

You're really hung up on the whole being laughed at thing, and I think your comments of how foreigners are perceived and talked about are off and certainly not representative of how most people are. Most people are generally understanding of others who are nonnatives.

<<I still don't use slang in English for this reason, even though English is my native language.>>

Impossible. Everyone uses slang in normal conversation, and people are probably less aware of it than they would think (since most people also believe they speak "just like the news broadcasters on TV"). You may believe you speak completely "Standard English" all the time but in fact you don't. No one does.