Embassy errors

Position   Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:13 am GMT
This is from the British Embassy website in Spain:

"The UK police, acting with the security service, MI5, have carried out a major counter-terrorism operation on 10 August to disrupt an alleged plot to bring down a number of aircraft through mid-flight explosions."

Do you see anything grammatically incorrect there?
Guest   Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:31 am GMT
Yes.

"have carried out" should be "carried out" because a specific time is mentioned.
David   Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:09 am GMT
Everything's fine with the statement. They published it shortly after they had foiled the plot, so "have carried out" is OK.

Maybe the user "Position" wanted to point out that it says "have carried out", but that's correct in British English, because the police are a large number of people.
Geoff_One   Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:00 pm GMT
Change "carried out" to "conducted".

I think Winston Churchill once said that only dead bodies are carried out.

Change "through" to via.
Guest   Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:59 pm GMT
"Everything's fine with the statement. They published it shortly after they had foiled the plot, so "have carried out" is OK. "

Maybe that's correct in British English, but it's not correct in American English. Perfect tenses can never be used with a specific time in American English, even if it was recent.

"Maybe the user "Position" wanted to point out that it says "have carried out", but that's correct in British English, because the police are a large number of people."

It's correct in American English, too. "The UK Poilce has carried out" is WRONG in American English. I wonder what nationality you are....
Tiffany   Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:14 pm GMT
American here. I see nothing wrong with "have carried out" - I would say it too.

The difference you are talking about is when Americans and Britons disagree on whether a noun that is one entity composed of many people takes 3rd person singular or 3rd person plural.

In AmE - "The family has 3 children"
In BrE - "The family have 3 children"

Not sure if Britons ever say it the way we do, but I suspect both are acceptable to them, while only one is to us. Please correct me if I am wrong.

This however, as you can see, is not a case of disagreement. We both agree it takes 3rd person plural.
Tommie   Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:32 pm GMT
<Change "carried out" to "conducted".

I think Winston Churchill once said that only dead bodies are carried out. >

Bad advice, friend. "carry out" is a commonly ised phrasal verb with these dictionary meanings:

carry out sth or carry sth out

to do or complete something, especially something important
A survey of ten schools in the area will be carried out next year.

if you carry out something that you said you would do, or that you have been told to do [e.g. instructions, order, threat], you do it
No one actually thought that the kidnappers would carry out their threat.
He claimed that he was blameless because he was merely carrying out instructions.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=carry.out*1+0&dict=P
M56   Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:34 pm GMT
<Perfect tenses can never be used with a specific time in American English, even if it was recent.>

It's the same in British English.
Position   Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:37 pm GMT
I thought that the use of the present perfect with an adverb of completed time was incorrect.

To me, it should be:

The UK police carried out a major counter-terrorism operation on 10 August

or:

The UK police have (recentlyt) carried out a major counter-terrorism operation.
Guest   Sat Sep 09, 2006 12:42 am GMT
"American here. I see nothing wrong with "have carried out" - I would say it too."

Really Tiffany?

Would you say "I have done that yesterday." or "I have done that on September 7th." I think the length of the sentence is confusing you. I'm afraid that it's not correct.

"It's the same in British English."

Yeah. I had never heard of such a distinction, but I assumed there may have been one from David's comment. It seemed a little strange to me.
Deborahq   Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:04 am GMT
Position wrote:

<< The UK police carried out a major counter-terrorism operation on 10 August

or:

The UK police have (recentlyt) carried out a major counter-terrorism operation. >>

I agree.
Uriel   Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:57 pm GMT
I have a feeling Position was trying to get us to see it as an ambiguous sentence, where the police appear to have carried out their anti-terrorism operation by CAUSING mid-flight explosions.
Position   Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:54 am GMT
<I have a feeling Position was trying to get us to see it as an ambiguous sentence, where the police appear to have carried out their anti-terrorism operation by CAUSING mid-flight explosions. >

No, I wasn't. It was really a question about the present perfect and adverbs.
Geoff_One   Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:05 am GMT
<< <Change "carried out" to "conducted".

I think Winston Churchill once said that only dead bodies are carried out. >

Bad advice, friend. "carry out" is a commonly ised phrasal verb with these dictionary meanings: >>

I believe that Winston Churchill said what he said for the purpose of humour. He may have got sick of people not carrying out what he asked them to carry out, so he made the humourous remark to lighten up the situation.
Uriel   Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:13 pm GMT
Well, in that case, Position, there's nothing grammatically incorrect about that sentence to me.