Do Irish people like to be called Paddies???

Brad   Mon May 21, 2007 3:11 pm GMT
I have the hots for your name, Rene! Is your fucking real name?
Damian in Edinburgh   Mon May 21, 2007 3:21 pm GMT
Guest: Your "English hating Welsh father" - that really is a wee bit sad. Just as sad is that we have people here in Scotland who similarly feel genuine antipathy towards our English neighbours. I admit to taking the piss out of the Sassenachs here in this forum many times but never have I expressed hate - "hate" is such an ugly word - it even sounds dreich when uttered - and expressing hateful emotions of any kind actually has a negative affect on the human body - ie it's bad for the health. Love, on the other hand, has a positive effect.

The reasons for anti Englishness are historical in the main and these genuine bigots conveniently link the past with the perceived grievances of today, which is all so pointless. It works both ways - it seems that a lot of English people resent the dominance of Scots in central Government in London, often having a say in solely English affairs, an advantage denied to the English themselves when it comes to both Scottish and Welsh affairs. Now it's certain that from late June the UK will have a Prime Minister who is 100% Scottish and who sits as MP for the Scottish constituency of Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath! Ha! Sorry about that! :-)

Fortunately most Scots (and definitely most Welsh people also) wish to continue in a state of British brotherhood with our English neighbours - but still reserve the right to take the proverbials out of each other in amicable banter whenever we think fit! Feel free to return the mud pies! :-)

Just think of the lovely Language that unites us all - ENGLISH ....while still keeping alive the other living localised languages within the British Isles.

English: God's gift to everyone with a tongue. :-)
Guest/Mark   Mon May 21, 2007 4:27 pm GMT
Don't worry "Damian in Edinburgh" whilst there remains Celts like you, I doubt that I will truly ever hate our Celtic brothers, I just feel a little switched off from that aspect of my heritage

Concerning politics, when have politicians in the main ever stood for the common man (regardless of class), I'm a conservative at heart, but have empathy for those who are labour who think new labour are too conservative, something I feel is true of my party as well.

Regarding the lovely Rene, I doubt "yanks" in modern Britain has the same negative meaning, in a similar way as not being offended when called a Brit. If you do find it offensive, I will try to rectify this failing in myself.
Steve   Mon May 21, 2007 6:05 pm GMT
I'm an American who has visited the of Republic Ireland and the United Kingdom (Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and England), and I found the vast majority of the Irish, Scots, Welsh and English to be good people. I didn't really encounter much anti-Americanism, but I went out of my way to be on my best behavior. I avoided the hot topics like politics and religion, and I certainly didn't shove America down anyone's throat. American, Irish and the various British groups (Northern Irish, Welsh, Scots, and English) share many of the same pop cultural roots like music, food, movies, literature, television programs. I have also been to many other countries in the Middle East, Asia and South America, and I haven't felt I was ever a victim of anti-Americanism. The only people who gave me grief about being a "Yank" were the wankers who just wanted to have an easy target to attack. I do feel that Americans are less concerned with history than other people. Nobody talks about WW11 here anymore.
Rene   Mon May 21, 2007 6:17 pm GMT
No Mark, I don't find it offensive. I only meant that at one time it was supposed to be and that we sort of adopted it as a national icon (yankee doodle dandy), which seems to be a very isolated incident as you don't hear patriot songs in Ireland referring to themselves as Paddies, Pakistanian independence songs loudly declaring "I'm a Paki", whereas you have a once pejorative term, "yankee" and you have us proudly decalring "I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy a Yankee Doodle do or die..." and I'm sure that you know the rest of that song as well as, "Yankee Doodle went to town riding on a pony stuck a feather in his hat and called it macaroni...etc." which was a song composed by British soldiers to make fun of the "colonists" and which we adopted as a national anthem of sorts. We took the whole thing so jokingly that now if someone were to say, "yankee" we wouldn't be offended at all. I just thought that it was strange that that attitude seems so singular.
Steve   Mon May 21, 2007 6:30 pm GMT
Having worked overseas with many Scots, Irish, Welsh and English, I always enjoyed how they liked to wind-up one with their insults and put-downs, but it was always sort of a game and nobody took it serious. I didn't truly believe they hated one another or wanted to fight. I remember in ireland there were always jokes about the "Kerryman" and the "country man." Outside of Dublin the Irish always laughingly referred to Dubliners as "Jackeens". In England there was always this thing going on between the "Scousers" and the "Cockneys".

I am not sure about this issue concerning the word "Paddy". In the States a putdowm term for the Irish was "Mick", but I don't believe it is commonly used any more. In New York City in the Seventies the term "Donkey" was used for the Irish fresh off of the boat. I certainly wouldn't use any term that would offend anybody or get me a punch in the mouth.

I also don't object to being called "YanK", but where I come from that means only one thing: the New York Yankess. I am from Wisconsin, and the put-down for us is 'cheese head".

Finally, we'll all meet good peple from all places. Sad to say, 10% of any group will be jerks.
Adam   Mon May 21, 2007 6:40 pm GMT
"Yankee Doodle" is a well-known American song, often sung patriotically today . It is actually the state anthem of Connecticut.

The song's origins were in a pre-Revolutionary War song originally sung by British military officers to mock the disheveled, unorganized colonial "Yankees" with whom they served in the French and Indian War. At the time, the most common meaning of the word doodle had the meaning of "simpleton" or "fool". It is believed that the tune comes from the nursery rhyme Lucy Locket. One version of the Yankee Doodle lyrics is attributed to Doctor Richard Shuckburgh, a British Army surgeon.

The Boston Journal of the Times wrote about a British band declaring "that Yankee Doodle song was the Capital Piece of their band music."

Early versions

The earliest known version of the lyrics comes from 1775:

"Brother Ephraim sold his Cow
And bought him a Commission;
And then he went to Canada
To fight for the Nation;

But when Ephraim he came home
He proved an arrant Coward,
He wouldn't fight the Frenchmen there
For fear of being devour'd."

During the Revolutionary War, the Americans embraced the song and made it their own, turning it back on those who had used it to mock them. A newspaper account after the Battle of Lexington and Concord, a Boston newspaper reported: "Upon their return to Boston [pursued by the Minutemen], one [Briton] asked his brother officer how he liked the tune now, — 'Damn them,' returned he, 'they made us dance it till we were tired' — since which Yankee Doodle sounds less sweet to their ears."

The British responded with another set of lyrics following the Battle of Bunker Hill (which the Americans lost):

"The seventeen of June, at Break of Day,
The Rebels they supriz'd us,
With their strong Works, which they'd thrown up,
To burn the Town and drive us."
Damian in Edinburgh   Mon May 21, 2007 7:50 pm GMT
Taking the piss.....taking the mick.....taking the mickey......pulling of the leg.....winding up.......all out of other's a national pastime in the UK. If done in a sort of dry deadpan way so much the better. The secret is not to take any of it seriously at all. God knows how it all started in Britain.....all parts of Britain.....but it's been an aspect of the British character for aeons. I think the British sense of humour must be one of the most misunderstood in the world.......take it to heart and feel offended then you've goofed big time. :-) What a piss taking Brit says with humorous intent is not the same as outsiders generally think s/he really meant by taking it all at face value..

I make reference to Shakespeare again here......there are are regular examples in his plays of this English disposition to piss taking (as it mainly was in his day seeing that Scotland and Wales were still independent countries) and the Elizabethans were well versed in the art of mickey taking and merrie banter at the expense of others, all with tongue in cheek.

Come what may it's set to be on going ad infinitum. Drop in at any British pub, the hub of the everyday British social scene, in Eng. Scot. Wales or NI, and join in the'll see (sorry, I mean hear) plenty of urine extraction.
Rene   Tue May 22, 2007 6:58 pm GMT
Damian; I've only seen a few episodes of the Carol Burnett show, maybe 10, but that was exactly what a lot of the humor on that show was. I thought it was hilarious personally, and as you know I am rather humor impaired. So, I don't think that "piss taking" as you call it is misunderstood in America. Maybe it's more of an "English Speaking" thing than a "British" thing.
Adam   Tue May 22, 2007 7:34 pm GMT
"So, I don't think that "piss taking" as you call it is misunderstood in America. Maybe it's more of an "English Speaking" thing than a "British" thing. "

That's not true.

One of the few forms of humour that the Scots possess is "piss taking" for banter. They love taking the piss out of the English and, quite often, the Americans. They take the piss and then say they are only "pulling our legs."

Apart from that, though, the Scots are usually perceived by the English, and others, to be quite dour.

A good example of a dour Scots is soon-to-be British Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
English   Tue May 22, 2007 10:45 pm GMT
Us English aren't so bad at piss taking ourselves
Bulldog123   Thu May 24, 2007 12:44 pm GMT
I find it funny that the Scots agree and think it fair description.
Guest   Thu May 24, 2007 6:35 pm GMT
Piss taking is not foreign to where I live in the US. The UK sense of humor isn't all that unique. They just like to think that it is.
Guest   Thu May 24, 2007 11:04 pm GMT
I suggest Irish people to call English as Englishits a nickname they fit perfectly
Damian in Scotland   Fri May 25, 2007 7:57 am GMT
That's not very nice, Guest. As a Scot I have many English friends now - some in the north of England, some in the south and some in the in-between bits and none, repeat none, of them fit that unpleasant description. Some exist, sure, but they do in every country and community. Most countries have aspects of their history they'd like to forget so don't dwell too much on the winds stirring the barley. This is now the 21st century and time moves on. Imagine how the world would look today if the English themselves had never existed? Quite a lot different and a lot more people would still be hunting in tribes with bones stuck through their noses. If the the English were all $hits I wouldn't be spending this Bank Holiday weekend down there among them. If you want fun I recommend Milton Keynes. MK is in SE England.....well, the NW bit of the SE bit of England. Plenty of their own version of English English Estuaryspeak :-)