The British are descended from the Spaniards

Guest   Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:49 am GMT
Scientists have discovered the British are descended from a tribe of Spanish fishermen. DNA analysis has found the Celts — Britain's indigenous population — have an almost identical genetic "fingerprint" to a tribe of Iberians from the coastal regions of Spain who crossed the Bay of Biscay almost 6,000 years ago.

People of Celtic ancestry were thought to have descended from tribes of central Europe. But Bryan Sykes, professor of human genetics at Oxford University, said: "About 6,000 years ago Iberians developed ocean-going boats that enabled them to push up the Channel.

"Before they arrived, there were some human inhabitants of Britain, but only a few thousand. These people were later subsumed into a larger Celtic tribe... the majority of people in the British Isles are actually descended from the Spanish."

A team led by Professor Sykes — who is soon to publish the first DNA map of the British Isles — spent five years taking DNA samples from 10,000 volunteers in Britain and Ireland, in an effort to produce a map of our genetic roots.

The most common genetic fingerprint belongs to the Celtic clan, which Professor Sykes has called "Oisin". After that, the next most widespread originally belonged to tribes of Danish and Norse Vikings. Small numbers of today's Britons are also descended from north African, Middle Eastern and Roman clans.

These DNA fingerprints have enabled Professor Sykes to create the first genetic maps of the British Isles, which are analysed in his book Blood Of The Isles, published this week. The maps show that Celts are most dominant in Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

But the Celtic clan is also strongly represented elsewhere in the British Isles. "Although Celts have previously thought of themselves as being genetically different from the English, this is emphatically not the case," said Professor Sykes.

Link to site,
LAA   Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:06 pm GMT
It's interesting that Guest posted a thread like this one, when I currently posted a similar thread on a different forum.
Adam   Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:14 pm GMT
The English are Germanic. We're mostly the descendants of the Anglo-Saxons who came mostly from what is now Germany and Denmark.

But now scientists have found that the Celts (the Scots, Welsh and Irish), who often accuse the English of being "foreigners" in these islands, are also descended from foreigners themselves.
Adam   Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:15 pm GMT
I would also explain why most Welsh people have slightly dark skins and really dark hair, reminiscent of the people of Southern English, whereas the English are much lighter.
Adam   Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:16 pm GMT
That should say "Southern Europe."
LAA   Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:11 pm GMT
But you see, whether the English are primarily of Anglo-Saxon origin or indigenous origin is up to debate. Both sides of the argument are rather convincing, and genetic studies from both sides contradict each other.

But the fact is, nearly all traces of ancient British languages in modern day English are non-existent. If the Anglo-Saxons co-existed with a much larger native British population, then surely there would have been more inter-lingual lexical adoptions. But instead, less than a dozen Celtic words remain in English. I find it highly unlikely that a small minority's influence could be that overwhelmingly dominant, that the native majority's language is completely eradicated.

For me, the only way to truly discover the origins of the English, is to know and compare their physical appearance with other Celtic and Germanic peoples of the present day. The Anglo-Saxons were from northern Holland, northern Germany, and parts of Denmark. Modern people of these regions (like Friesland, whose language is very similar to English) have high frequencies of the blond hair, blue eyed, Tuetonic stereotype, and the average height here is very tall. Celtic people of the British Isles on the other hand, are historically typically shorter than the Tuetonic peoples of northern Europe and Scandanavia, and blondism is much rarer among these peoples, while dark hair is rather common, and red hair is proportionately common as well. The question is, which do the English look more like? I've never been to England myself, but from what I've seen on TV, I get the impression that Englishmen have lower frequencies of those stereotypical Tuetonic features, the way Dutchmen and Danes do, while at the same time, I know that they are historically, slightly taller than the Celts like the Welsh, and that the Welsh were thought of as being dark featured compared to the English.

If you guys could provide your input as to who they look more alike, it would be greatly appreciated in my research.

And as long as we're talking about the Anglo-Saxons, and we're on a language forum, could somebody please provide that beta modern English, without Latinate vocabulary that Brennus was working on before? But who is to say to what extent Norman French influenced the orthogrophy and phonology of modern English as well?
Benjamin   Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:59 pm GMT
LAA — search for 'Anglish' on the internet.
LAA   Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:17 pm GMT
Log on langcafe real fast, why don't you.

But why look up "Anglish"? I will though.
Aldvm   Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:26 pm GMT
Isn't -wales- derived from -galicia-? Is there a connection between the two?
LAA   Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:33 pm GMT
You mean in the etymology of the name? No. At least not in English or other Germanic langauges. The word "Wales" in English comes from a Germanic word which meant "foreigner" or "slave", and it was used as a derogatory name for non-Germanic peoples, which included the Latin peoples and Celtic peoples. This is where we get names like "Wallonia", "Walachia", and "Wales". In Spanish, and other Latin languages like French, the name for Wales is "Pais de Gales", which literally means "Celtic country". And the word for "Celt" (from Greek "Keltoi) in Latin is "Gaul". The etymology of this word is linked with our animal friend the rooster. That is why to this day, the national symbol of France is the cock, and "Gallo" is the Spanish word for rooster.
JGreco   Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:29 pm GMT
I guess that explains the appearance of Catherine Zeta-Jones who is of welsh background. She can pass for Colombian anyday.
greg   Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:30 am GMT
«The British are descended from the Spaniards» —> Brennus : quel est le rapport avec les langues ou la linguistique ? (Was hat dieses Thema mit Sprachen und Sprachenwissenschaft zu tun ?)
Fraser   Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:55 am GMT
This research is very interesting. I have always assumed a possible Spanish connection with the British Isles, because Galicia sounds similar to the Spanish word for Wales which is Gales and I have told my students for years that there must have been some kind of connection between Wales and Spain in the history of the language far back in time, as language is a "museum" of any culture. This research has given me something else to tell them now!

- Lindsay Fraser, Nottingham/Spain
Bandera   Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:35 am GMT

Having for sources the posts from Antimoon aren't really serious for a teacher... There has been some connexions between the welsh and the french, the welsh and the spanish, the germans and the french, the french and the spanish....................................

"there must have been some kind of connection between Wales and Spain in the history of the language"

This is a feeling, and you teach with feelings????
Gringo   Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:11 am GMT
««the majority of people in the British Isles are actually descended from the Spanish."»»

Now this is strange. The Iberians were not Spanish, because there were no Spanish people at that time. How does a scientist say something like this after 5 years of research? The majority of the people of the British Islands may descend from the IBERIANS, just like the Spanish people.

Adam Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:15 pm GMT
««I would also explain why most Welsh people have slightly dark skins and really dark hair, reminiscent of the people of Southern English,
whereas the English are much lighter.»»

Is that so? And how do you know how the skin of the average Iberian looked like 6000 years ago?

hahah!! You mean that the average English of today looks very much like the "Chinese", of the Province of Xinjiang, 2000 years ago ( look at the "Ur-Adam" the "Cherchen man", the "Yingpan Man", the "Hammi Mummy" or the "Loulan Beauty"). Or that the that the average English of today looks like the "Mongols" 2500 years ago (look at the mongol blonde mummy). (Now, I think we are getting some where with the skin colour and language relation.)

The Tarim mummies were found in same geografic region that the Indo-European Tocharian languages are though to have been spoken. Some think they could be related to the Tocharians and spoke a similar Indo-European language. The scythyan warrior found in Mongolia ( the blonde Mongol mummy) probably spoke a Scytho-Sarmatian language, it is also an Indo european language.

Following your line of thought ( the skin colour one) the Chinese, the English and the Mongols should look the same and speak Indo-European languages!!