"to put down" usage

Travis   Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:39 pm GMT
I have uploaded my version of the Comma passage again at:

http://media.putfile.com/Comma-reading-by-Travis
Guest   Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:03 am GMT
So Josh , what you say about Travis's accent. It seems to me that my life will not be wasted on the bet...haha :)
Josh Lalonde   Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:44 pm GMT
All rise! The Honourable Josh Lalonde presiding!...
As I said, I've never heard a North Korean accent, but I've heard South Koreans, and this doesn't really sound like them. I understand why you think Travis sounds Asian; l-vocalisation and the elision of [4] are characteristic of Asian ESL speakers as well. The intonation however, is very different from any ESL Asians I've spoken to, and is basically the same as General American.
I have to say that your accent is more different from mine than I expected. Intervocalic l-vocalisation is a whole different kettle of fish than post-vocalic, and dominates my perception of your accent. Other important differences, like the NCVS and your [R] realisation of /r/ are much less salient for me; I barely noticed them.
In short: sorry, Guest, he doesn't sound Korean, but I understand why you might say that. Although you did bet your life on it, I'll commute sentence to a lifetime supply of chocolate to the court and all parties involved. Case closed!

PS. I posted my own sample here: http://media.putfile.com/Comma-Passage
Travis   Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:54 pm GMT
>>Other important differences, like the NCVS and your [R] realisation of /r/ are much less salient for me; I barely noticed them.<<

I do tend to have a relatively weak NCVS, all things considered, (the main part of the NCVS that I have quite strongly is the shift of [A] to [a], and while I do have a glide in [E{] unlike GA [{] it is not that long of a glide in most cases) and even to me, [r\] and my [R_o] do not *sound* all that different from each other even if they are *articulated* very differently from each other except when I really stress it (due to it becoming more fricative than approximant in nature).
Travis   Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:58 pm GMT
That said, when I listen to my own speech samples, intervocalic and prevocalic l-vocalization *really* stick out even to myself, whereas I am so used to postvocalic l-vocalization that I do not really notice it (except for the realization of /old/ as [oUd] simply due to how close it gets to /od/ -> [od], with the diphthong [oU] being less backed than that from /ol/ in most cases). But when actually speaking or hearing other individuals here speak, I do not think about them at all the vast majority of the time.
Travis   Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:39 pm GMT
There is another case that I do readily notice in the speech of others or myself while speaking, but which unlike the [oUd] case really sticks out to me, as the realization of light "l" at the start of a word as [M\] or, to a lesser degree, [M\L\]. This pronunciation seems to be rather common here, and yet it still seems somewhat "off" for whatever reason, even if I'm the person using it.
Josh Lalonde   Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:06 pm GMT
<<This pronunciation seems to be rather common here, and yet it still seems somewhat "off" for whatever reason, even if I'm the person using it.>>

I know what you mean. I have a few of those things too. Like you, I find l-vocalised /ol/ sounds strange before a consonant. I have the same thing with /Al/, which I suppose doesn't occur in your dialect. There's a strange variation with [oU], [QU] and [AU] all being legitimate forms in my accent, but each sometimes sounding 'off' for different reasons. These vowels are in fact the ones after which I'm most likely to use [l] as I move up in register. I do this especially when speaking to strangers or older people who are more likely to be confused by the vocalised forms, where 'code' 'cold' and 'called' have similar vowels. My [v\] realisation of /r/ can also sound off to me. It seems to be most likely before tense vowels in /tr/ and /dr/ sequences, and is actually elided sometimes, making 'chain' and 'train' similar in sound.
Travis   Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:22 am GMT
>>Like you, I find l-vocalised /ol/ sounds strange before a consonant.<<

Such does not sound *strange* to me at all, but it sounds noticable specifically because the [oU] from the sequence /old/ in particular comes extremely close to the diphthongal realizations of /o/ common in many English dialects or even word-finally in careful speech in the dialect here. Consequently "code" [k_ho:d] and "cold" [k_ho:Ud] effectively forms a minimal pair on two phones for which minimal pairs do not normally exist in English dialects.

Note that while I do get [oU] from /ol/ in other positions, the [oU] I normally get is far enough from the usual diphthongal realization of English /o/ as [oU] due to having an offglide to a further back position (as opposed to an offglide to a purely higher position) and a lower degree of rounding. For instance, "colt" [k_hoU?] has my more usual [oU] that is not really noticably "marked" to me, unlike "cold".

/old/ seems to be the only case where I have a "weird" realization of a vowel followed by coda /l/ IMD. All the other ones I do not even intuitively notice as diphthongs unless I really think about them carefully, whereas with /old/ I noticed it as "different" and as being similar to /od/ even before I was really interested in linguistics.
Josh Lalonde   Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:52 pm GMT
There is actually a dialect in the Rhondda Valley in Wales that distinguishes /o:/ from /oU/, for example in 'toe' vs. 'tow'. They also distinguish /e:/ from /eI/ like 'vane' and 'vein'. I listened to some accent samples and I can barely tell the difference.