Hi, I have been arguing with a friend that english uses and has less words for the same idea, description.... i.e. synonyms.
Is it true?
Ta
Is it true?
Ta
English has less words than french for a same description?
As far as I know French has a lot fewer words than English. English has both Latin and Germanic vocaulary, so it seems likely it would have more words than French for the same concept.
" English has both Latin and Germanic vocaulary "
It is not a specificity of English. You find a lot of words of latin origins in the other germanic langauges, and also in other linguistic groups.
Most of the words of latin origins used in English that have a germanic synonym are not English words but french ones, that were added to the English lexicon in the past because it was seen as adding more value to use them compared to the English ones.
It is not a specificity of English. You find a lot of words of latin origins in the other germanic langauges, and also in other linguistic groups.
Most of the words of latin origins used in English that have a germanic synonym are not English words but french ones, that were added to the English lexicon in the past because it was seen as adding more value to use them compared to the English ones.
Guest, I think, Julien is referring here at the number of words needed/used by these two languages to define/describe or express something in a sentence. I will use his ideea to make comparitions between many languages.
Let's take one of the multiple definitions of a RECTANGLE and translate it from English into other languages:
In English: A Rectangle is a four-sided polygon with opposite sides parallel and all internal angles are 90° (17 words, including number 90)
In German: Ein Rechteck ist ein vierseitiges Polygon mit paralel gegenüber Seiten und wo alle inneren Winkel sind 90° (17 words)
In Dutch: Een Rechthoek is een vierzijdige veelhoek met tegenovergestelde zijden parallel en alle interne hoeken zijn 90° (16 words)
In Norwegian: En Rectangle er en firesiders polygon med motsatt sider parallell og all innvendig vinler er 90° (16 words)
In Russian: Прямоугольник - четырех-примкнутый многоугольник с противоположной параллелью сторон, и все внутренние углы 90 ° (13 words)
In French: Un Rectangle est un polygone à quatre côtés avec en face des côtés paralel et tous angles internes sont 90° (20 words)
In Italian: Un Rettangolo è un poligono a quattro lati con di fronte ai lati è parallelo a e tutti gli angoli interni sono 90° (23 words)
In Spanish: Un Rectángulo es un polígono de cuatro lados con lados opuestos refleja y todos ángulos internos son 90° (18 words)
In Romanian: Un dreptunghi este un poligon cu laturile opuse paralele si toate unghiurile interne sunt de 90 (16 words)
In Portuguesse: Um Retângulo é um polígono quatro de lados com em frente de lados iguala e todos ângulos internos são 90° (20 words)
Final note: It is possible that my translations need corrections; please feel free and make them.
Let's take one of the multiple definitions of a RECTANGLE and translate it from English into other languages:
In English: A Rectangle is a four-sided polygon with opposite sides parallel and all internal angles are 90° (17 words, including number 90)
In German: Ein Rechteck ist ein vierseitiges Polygon mit paralel gegenüber Seiten und wo alle inneren Winkel sind 90° (17 words)
In Dutch: Een Rechthoek is een vierzijdige veelhoek met tegenovergestelde zijden parallel en alle interne hoeken zijn 90° (16 words)
In Norwegian: En Rectangle er en firesiders polygon med motsatt sider parallell og all innvendig vinler er 90° (16 words)
In Russian: Прямоугольник - четырех-примкнутый многоугольник с противоположной параллелью сторон, и все внутренние углы 90 ° (13 words)
In French: Un Rectangle est un polygone à quatre côtés avec en face des côtés paralel et tous angles internes sont 90° (20 words)
In Italian: Un Rettangolo è un poligono a quattro lati con di fronte ai lati è parallelo a e tutti gli angoli interni sono 90° (23 words)
In Spanish: Un Rectángulo es un polígono de cuatro lados con lados opuestos refleja y todos ángulos internos son 90° (18 words)
In Romanian: Un dreptunghi este un poligon cu laturile opuse paralele si toate unghiurile interne sunt de 90 (16 words)
In Portuguesse: Um Retângulo é um polígono quatro de lados com em frente de lados iguala e todos ângulos internos são 90° (20 words)
Final note: It is possible that my translations need corrections; please feel free and make them.
I agree with eu that English (as with most Germanic languages) use fewer words to convey a meaning, esp compared with Romance languages.
e.g. "John's book" (2 words) vs. French "Le livre de John" (4 words);
"medicine cabinet" vs. "le cabinet de médecine"; etc. due to the Romance construction above.
HOWEVER,
as far as having more words (sysnonyms), English usually beats French hands down:
English "bad, evil, wicked, sick, ill, infirm, pain, hurt, poorly, iniquity, immorality, tough, miserable, suffering, wretched, annoyance, nuisance, bother", etc. are all usually conveyed by only one word (in most cases) in French: "mal"
so English is a MUCH richer language than French is.
the wordstock is also greater: 500,000 English vs. 100,000 in French.
e.g. "John's book" (2 words) vs. French "Le livre de John" (4 words);
"medicine cabinet" vs. "le cabinet de médecine"; etc. due to the Romance construction above.
HOWEVER,
as far as having more words (sysnonyms), English usually beats French hands down:
English "bad, evil, wicked, sick, ill, infirm, pain, hurt, poorly, iniquity, immorality, tough, miserable, suffering, wretched, annoyance, nuisance, bother", etc. are all usually conveyed by only one word (in most cases) in French: "mal"
so English is a MUCH richer language than French is.
the wordstock is also greater: 500,000 English vs. 100,000 in French.
It's because English has many compound words: NIGHTFALL counts as one word in English, but in Portuguese ''CAIR DA NOITE'' is not a word but an expression (No cair da noite = in the nightfall)...I guess, it could be a one word if the hyphen were used CAIR-DA-NOITE, but it's not...Even WEEKEND is 3 words expression in Portuguese: FINAL DA SEMANA
retângulo
Quadrilátero eqüiângulo; quadrilátero cujos ângulos são retos.
[2+5 words, Dicionário Aurélio]
Quadrilátero eqüiângulo; quadrilátero cujos ângulos são retos.
[2+5 words, Dicionário Aurélio]
1. Kelly, the rectangle could be defined in many ways, I used a more complicated definition just to give comparison a better chance. Shorter definitions, I could find in English as well.
2. Kelly, you are right, the German languages are "collapsing" sometimes two or more words in one, a good thing for the economy of speaking/writing. I consider this a plus for the Germanic languages. They are more direct, precise.
3. What do you think about Russian? In the example form above, it is the most economical language ...
2. Kelly, you are right, the German languages are "collapsing" sometimes two or more words in one, a good thing for the economy of speaking/writing. I consider this a plus for the Germanic languages. They are more direct, precise.
3. What do you think about Russian? In the example form above, it is the most economical language ...
« Guest » : « English has both Latin and Germanic vocaulary, so it seems likely it would have more words than French for the same concept. »
Faux. Le nombre de sources historiques d'alimentation du vocabulaire ne renseigne en ***RIEN*** sur le volume lexical disponible. La meilleure preuve de ce que j'avance est que le français dispose d'une source, le latin, qui alimente la langue française par deux canaux distincts : [1] la filiation pure — [2] l'emprunt. Exemple : <frêle> & <fragile> sont issus du ***MÊME*** étymon latin. En conséquence, le français possède ***DEUX*** sources latines, pas une.
« Guest » : « HOWEVER, as far as having more words (sysnonyms), English usually beats French hands down: English "bad, evil, wicked, sick, ill, infirm, pain, hurt, poorly, iniquity, immorality, tough, miserable, suffering, wretched, annoyance, nuisance, bother", etc. are all usually conveyed by only one word (in most cases) in French: "mal" ».
Faux bien sûr.
bad → mauvais, mauvaise, mauvaises
evil → diabolique, diaboliques
wicked → malfaisant, malfaisants, malfaisante, malfaisantes, fatal, fatals, fatale, fatales
sick → malade, malades, écœuré, écœurés, écœurée, écœurées, noué, noués, nouée, nouées, barbouillé, barbouillés, barbouillée, barbouillées, dégoûtant, dégoûtants, dégoûtante, dégoûtantes
ill → mal, malade, malades, peu
iniquity → iniquité, immoralité, dérèglement, disparité, injustice, partialité
immorality → immoralité, dépravation, dissolution, licence, vice, malhonnêteté, inconvenance
infirm → infirme, infirmes
pain → douleur, douleurs, mal, maux, peine, peines, misère, misères
hurt → blesser, blessure, douleur, souffrance, faire de la peine, se faire mal, faire souffrir, avoir mal, souffrir, nuire, être mauvais, être néfaste
poorly → médiocrement, à peine, guère, petitement, passablement, pauvrement, peu, modestement, modérément
Je vais directement au dernier mot car j'ai pas que ça à faire :
bother → prendre la peine, se soucier, importuner, ennuyer, enquiquiner, empoisonner, bassiner, faire suer, escagasser, casser les pieds, fatiguer, raser, tanner, prendre la tête, tracas, nuisance, problème, défi, marathon, chemin de croix.
En fin de compte, je te conseille vivement de te renseigner sur le concept de ***CHAMP SÉMANTIQUE*** et sur la notion de ***DISTRIBUTION SÉMANTIQUE***.
« Guest » (le même bien sûr...) : « (...) the wordstock is also greater: 500,000 English vs. 100,000 in French. »
Ça mon ami, va falloir le ***DÉMONTRER***. Tu ne fais que propager un ***MYTHE*** dont tu n'es que l'instrument inconscient.
Faux. Le nombre de sources historiques d'alimentation du vocabulaire ne renseigne en ***RIEN*** sur le volume lexical disponible. La meilleure preuve de ce que j'avance est que le français dispose d'une source, le latin, qui alimente la langue française par deux canaux distincts : [1] la filiation pure — [2] l'emprunt. Exemple : <frêle> & <fragile> sont issus du ***MÊME*** étymon latin. En conséquence, le français possède ***DEUX*** sources latines, pas une.
« Guest » : « HOWEVER, as far as having more words (sysnonyms), English usually beats French hands down: English "bad, evil, wicked, sick, ill, infirm, pain, hurt, poorly, iniquity, immorality, tough, miserable, suffering, wretched, annoyance, nuisance, bother", etc. are all usually conveyed by only one word (in most cases) in French: "mal" ».
Faux bien sûr.
bad → mauvais, mauvaise, mauvaises
evil → diabolique, diaboliques
wicked → malfaisant, malfaisants, malfaisante, malfaisantes, fatal, fatals, fatale, fatales
sick → malade, malades, écœuré, écœurés, écœurée, écœurées, noué, noués, nouée, nouées, barbouillé, barbouillés, barbouillée, barbouillées, dégoûtant, dégoûtants, dégoûtante, dégoûtantes
ill → mal, malade, malades, peu
iniquity → iniquité, immoralité, dérèglement, disparité, injustice, partialité
immorality → immoralité, dépravation, dissolution, licence, vice, malhonnêteté, inconvenance
infirm → infirme, infirmes
pain → douleur, douleurs, mal, maux, peine, peines, misère, misères
hurt → blesser, blessure, douleur, souffrance, faire de la peine, se faire mal, faire souffrir, avoir mal, souffrir, nuire, être mauvais, être néfaste
poorly → médiocrement, à peine, guère, petitement, passablement, pauvrement, peu, modestement, modérément
Je vais directement au dernier mot car j'ai pas que ça à faire :
bother → prendre la peine, se soucier, importuner, ennuyer, enquiquiner, empoisonner, bassiner, faire suer, escagasser, casser les pieds, fatiguer, raser, tanner, prendre la tête, tracas, nuisance, problème, défi, marathon, chemin de croix.
En fin de compte, je te conseille vivement de te renseigner sur le concept de ***CHAMP SÉMANTIQUE*** et sur la notion de ***DISTRIBUTION SÉMANTIQUE***.
« Guest » (le même bien sûr...) : « (...) the wordstock is also greater: 500,000 English vs. 100,000 in French. »
Ça mon ami, va falloir le ***DÉMONTRER***. Tu ne fais que propager un ***MYTHE*** dont tu n'es que l'instrument inconscient.
Мне кажется, русский язык рулит. Все остальные языки - потеря времени.
greg,
most of the words you cite are also found in English: "diabolical", "malfeasant", "malady", "immorality", but you have to admit, pound for pound, English has got more stuff!
c'mon greg, no body likes French anymore...'cept you : )
most of the words you cite are also found in English: "diabolical", "malfeasant", "malady", "immorality", but you have to admit, pound for pound, English has got more stuff!
c'mon greg, no body likes French anymore...'cept you : )
" most of the words you cite are also found in English: "diabolical", "malfeasant", "malady", "immorality", but you have to admit, pound for pound, English has got more stuff!
c'mon greg, no body likes French anymore...'cept you : ) "
It seems yourself you like french very much because you seem to be proud of the fact that English-speakers can use those words - which ARE precisely french words (sometimes lighely Englicized/germanized) !!
It is especially in English that those words have a specific "superior/intellectuel/snobbish" connotation, because they are taken from French. Only in germanic languages the latin/French words have this intellectual meaning that you seem to like a lot and be proud of could be able to use them in an English speech.
c'mon greg, no body likes French anymore...'cept you : ) "
It seems yourself you like french very much because you seem to be proud of the fact that English-speakers can use those words - which ARE precisely french words (sometimes lighely Englicized/germanized) !!
It is especially in English that those words have a specific "superior/intellectuel/snobbish" connotation, because they are taken from French. Only in germanic languages the latin/French words have this intellectual meaning that you seem to like a lot and be proud of could be able to use them in an English speech.
<<
English "bad, evil, wicked, sick, ill, infirm, pain, hurt, poorly, iniquity, immorality, tough, miserable, suffering, wretched, annoyance, nuisance, bother", etc. are all usually conveyed by only one word (in most cases) in French: "mal"
>>
C'est tout? the english vocabulary isn't so rich as the French, it's very know!
Synonymes de mal:
abus, acharnement, affection, affliction, amertume, application, bas, bobo, boiteux, calamité, calice, chagrin, crime, croix, cruauté, damnation, dangereusement, défaut, défavorablement, défectueusement, de guingois, déplaisir, désolation, difficulté, dommage, douleur, effort, enfer, ennemi, ennui, épreuve, fâcheusement, faiblement, faute, fiel, gauchement, imparfaitement, imperfection, incomplètement, inconvénient, incorrectement, indignité, indisposition, injustice, inopportun, inquiétude, insuffisamment, insuffisance, laid, laidement, larme, malade, maladie, maladroitement, malaise, malaisément, malencontreusement, malfaçon, malheur, martyre, mauvais, méchanceté, mécontentement, médiocrement, mélancolie, mortification, pauvrement, péché, peine, péniblement, perte, perversion, perversité, petitement, peu, pitoyable, plaie, préjudice, ravage, salement, souffrance, supplice, tare, tintouin, tort, torture, tourment, travail, tribulation, tristesse, troubles, vice, vilainement, violence.
TOTAL: 94 SYNONYMS!!
French snob?
Not as most as English...
English french-synonyms : chochotte, chichiteux, timide, lâche, imbécile, simplet, arriéré, batard, bestiasse, superflu, cancre, suranné, rococo, veillot, ramollo, déliquescent...
English "bad, evil, wicked, sick, ill, infirm, pain, hurt, poorly, iniquity, immorality, tough, miserable, suffering, wretched, annoyance, nuisance, bother", etc. are all usually conveyed by only one word (in most cases) in French: "mal"
>>
C'est tout? the english vocabulary isn't so rich as the French, it's very know!
Synonymes de mal:
abus, acharnement, affection, affliction, amertume, application, bas, bobo, boiteux, calamité, calice, chagrin, crime, croix, cruauté, damnation, dangereusement, défaut, défavorablement, défectueusement, de guingois, déplaisir, désolation, difficulté, dommage, douleur, effort, enfer, ennemi, ennui, épreuve, fâcheusement, faiblement, faute, fiel, gauchement, imparfaitement, imperfection, incomplètement, inconvénient, incorrectement, indignité, indisposition, injustice, inopportun, inquiétude, insuffisamment, insuffisance, laid, laidement, larme, malade, maladie, maladroitement, malaise, malaisément, malencontreusement, malfaçon, malheur, martyre, mauvais, méchanceté, mécontentement, médiocrement, mélancolie, mortification, pauvrement, péché, peine, péniblement, perte, perversion, perversité, petitement, peu, pitoyable, plaie, préjudice, ravage, salement, souffrance, supplice, tare, tintouin, tort, torture, tourment, travail, tribulation, tristesse, troubles, vice, vilainement, violence.
TOTAL: 94 SYNONYMS!!
French snob?
Not as most as English...
English french-synonyms : chochotte, chichiteux, timide, lâche, imbécile, simplet, arriéré, batard, bestiasse, superflu, cancre, suranné, rococo, veillot, ramollo, déliquescent...
In German you need only 15 words:
Ein Rechteck ist ein vierseitiges Polygon mit parallelen gegenüberliegenden Seiten, dessen Innenwinkel alle 90° sind.
Ein Rechteck ist ein vierseitiges Polygon mit parallelen gegenüberliegenden Seiten, dessen Innenwinkel alle 90° sind.
"c'mon greg, no body likes French anymore...'cept you : "
Nobody likes French? Then why is it that Egypt is a member of Francophonie instead of British Commonwealth. Greece and Ghana is an associate member. Kofi Anan a Ghanian and Boutros Boutos Ghali an Egyptian are both former UN Secretary and fluent in French.
I've chatted with young Vietnamese and they all speak French. In other words French is making a comeback in Vietnam. There is a movement in Nigeria to make French as co-official language with English.
Nobody likes French? Then why is it that Egypt is a member of Francophonie instead of British Commonwealth. Greece and Ghana is an associate member. Kofi Anan a Ghanian and Boutros Boutos Ghali an Egyptian are both former UN Secretary and fluent in French.
I've chatted with young Vietnamese and they all speak French. In other words French is making a comeback in Vietnam. There is a movement in Nigeria to make French as co-official language with English.