Whom...

Gwest   Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:36 am GMT
This is from a major dictionary, but I think it is bad info:

1. "Using whom often sounds forced or pretentiously correct, as in Whom shall I say is calling? or Whom did you give it to? Nevertheless, many writers adhere to the rules, especially in formal style."

This is quoted from the American Heritage Dictionary: http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/078.html
.......................

My thoughts:

I would have said that "Whom shall I say is calling?" was pretentiously incorrect, and contrary to "the rules", since the interrogative pronoun is the subject of "is calling".
Guest   Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:54 am GMT
It's best to not use "whom" at all, and avoid the problem entirely.
Guest   Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:36 pm GMT
Yes I think it must be wrong since it is indeed referring to the subject, and you wouldn't say 'Shall I say him is calling?'
beneficii   Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:19 pm GMT
Gwest,

In the phrase "whom shall I say is calling?" the use of "whom" is proper. It is the object of "say."
davidab   Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:26 pm GMT
The object of 'say' in the above case is a clause not a pronoun

I shall say [(that) s/he is calling]

The interrogative pronoun should be 'who' because it is replacing 's/he'
Guest   Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:55 pm GMT
Can we say "whom's calling"?
Lord Luvaduck   Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:07 pm GMT
"To whom am I speaking?" would be the correct usage (if you insist on using ye olde English)
furrykef   Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:39 pm GMT
"Whom shall I say is calling?" is indeed an error. To make it clearer, imagine answering the question: "I shall say he is calling", not "I shall say him is calling". It's very clear that "who" is not the object of "say".

The dictionary there using is eleven years old, so maybe they fixed the error already. If there is a newer edition, we should see if it includes the same sentence. I'd be surprised if the editors haven't been made aware of it by now.

- Kef
Guest   Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:57 am GMT
<<<The dictionary *there using is eleven years old, >>>

:-/
Guest   Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:58 am GMT
Correction – if Bartleby is to be believed, my original quotation comes from the American Heritage Book of English Usage (1996).

In the American Heritage Dictionary (2000), however, the following cautious amendment is made:

"...when used where who would be correct, as in Whom shall I say is calling? whom may betray grammatical ignorance..."
Skippy   Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:54 pm GMT
As noted previously, "whom" does sound a bit pretentious in every day speech, though in my opinion one should use it in written language... If you're writing an essay or an email to a potential employer... Anytime you're writing something formal, you should try and use "whom," avoid superfluous prepositions, etc.
M56   Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:33 pm GMT
<If you're writing an essay or an email to a potential employer... >

Depending on the job, type of employer, you/one is applying for/to. Many employers also think that "whom" is pretentious use.
Guest   Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:49 pm GMT
<<Depending on the job, type of employer, you/one is applying for/to. Many employers also think that "whom" is pretentious use. >>

I'd generally agree. After "to", "whom" might sound better than "who", in some cases, though.

Example:

"To whom it may concern:"

vs

"To who it may concern:"
Travis   Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:19 pm GMT
In most formal language and even non-highly informal everyday speech I myself generally use "whom" rather than "who" directly after a preposition but use "who" in all other positions.
M56   Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:06 pm GMT
<I'd generally agree. After "to", "whom" might sound better than "who", in some cases, though. >

Why use "who" or "whom" after "to" at all? There are many more options to using "who".